While I am waiting for my new toy to be shipped down to me I am wondering what kind of engine to eventually go for....

Firstly, I am not a big fan of the aircooled VW engine - pitifully low on power and it generally doesn't really suit the car IMO
My previous car was 235bhp and 700kg so it would take something quite beefy to come close to that, although I am realistic and aware that a 1303 chassis has its limits

I have been doing a bit of research into electric power - and the prices are coming down a lot in recent years with battery technology benefitting from the upward trend in mobile phones recently.
If I understand the blurb, a light weight Warp 9 motor would give me about 100bhp with a lot of torque. This could be mounted on the existing gearbox with a simple adaptor plate (I wonder if I could have one on each rear wheel ) The bank of Lithium Ion batteries would of course weigh a hell of a lot but I might be able to place them forward of the rear axle (where the +2 rear seats are) to give a better weight distribution.

Can I ask the collective what other engines you would choose if you were building a car today? Water cooled VW? Scooby maybe? Zetec even? I am open to any suggestions and would appreciate your comments.

If I were building a car today it would depend on the car as to what engine I put in it. Let's see. If I were building a GT40 then I'd put in a Corvette LS1 V8 engine in it. Or a Roushe Ford V8. If I were building a Jaguar XK13 replica then I'd use a Jag V12. If an Ultima, maybe an Audi 4.2 V8. Those are the only cars I'd probably consider building if I could, apart from some sports replicas like the Porsche 962.

If it were the Nova, which it is, then the Alfa Romeo flat four 1.7 engine as documented in my build thread. I'm not bored with saying that it is the ultimate engine for the Nova. Size, weight, power, power delivery, rev capability and last but not least sound. It's all there and it fits the bill perfectly. The only problem is getting hold of one and then having it sorted. My second choice would be Porsche power but I've never been keen on the sound, plus you'd get a crap heater system. Third would be Suburu power but personally I don't like the sound they make either and it looks like a right faff sorting out getting it to fit and doing the electrics. I'm also sure that its too tempting to go too powerful with a Scooby engine which makes worse the handling characteristics of the Nova and you would end up upgrading everything, probably on a continual basis. There would be no more engines that I would consider.

So there you have it. Just my opinion but I'm sure others will chip in with their opinions too.

I realise that you have an Avante and not a Nova so there would be various differences, although I'm sure not many.

Good luck with whatever you choose and I hope it all goes very well.

Giles

I don't think going electric is the way to go "yet".
Battery technology needs more time to evolve, charging times and life span of the cells etc.
The costs are extremely high at the moment anyway, if you want the equivalent batteries that power this generation of eco-cars then your probably looking at 7 grand a time. The current life span is approximately 7 years going off of the citroen and peugeot sites.

Personally I think the weakness is the gearbox with whatever engine you buy, the beetle gearbox is a four speed and open diff. It was never designed for high power engines and unless you buy a brand new unit who knows how thrashed your gearbox is already?

When it comes to power I would go subaru, you can buy them so cheaply and they are everywhere nowadays, classic alfa engines are far and few between and more expensive to buy and upgrade than a subaru unit is.

Again weakpoint is the VW gearbox and the flimsy chassis.

Obviously I'd be supporting the Scooby side of the argument. Sound is up to the individual, and that can also be changed with clever exhaust systems. Any engine not in the car it was originally designed for will require faffing around, unless you decide to go for a engine 3 or 4 decades old. Or at least without any on board computer running the show. Here in Oz at least, there is a ton of room in the engine bay of a Eureka F4 for a Scooby donk. And though I've never seen one in the flesh, I'd say there should be plenty of room in an Avante. Plumbing for any water cooled transplant will require a bit to work out, but here in Oz as two examples, mine has the radiator up front, and there's another one an hour or so away from me with the radiator in the back. And they both have the same engine, though mine's the turbo variant (ea82).

As for getting too much power out of a Scooby, that can be said on any engine. Including VW Bug donks. There are examples here in Oz that will scare 911's away. If you're thinking of a Scooby donk, go for a smaller one. They do make motors of less than the 2ltr even now. The newly developed engine they're running on the Toyota 86, Scion FR-S and Subaru BRV is a nice engine running at 2lt. But they're going to be not readily available at wreckers any time soon. Going for an early/mid 90's Scooby may be what you're looking for.

That said, if I were to build a Eureka myself, I'd be tempted to go the VW engine and work that puppy. Or just buy a Pobjoy engine ant a trick exhaust (Pobjoy being a local after market supplier of hot VW engines & parts).

Hi Raz - hmm, engine choice. Tricky. I think if you want more power you need to consider a mid-engine configuration, and fortunately, the Avante +2 has the proportions to be able to do this (although obviously you will lose the joke rear seat space). Realistically this would require a radical overhaul of the chassis, particularly at the back. If the car is registered as an Avante then you have the scope to re-design the rear suspension to suit the new running gear.

Like Giles, I am an unashamed fan of Alfa Romeos boxer engine, but these have been out of production for so long now they are not really viable any more. I believe an Avante was fitted with a Sandwood Alfachassis (and given a bobtail restyle in the process) and this would have made for a very neat little sports car.

Scoobies are popular but you really need to use the transaxle as well (with the rear prop connection removed) rather than be stuck with the poor Beetle ratios. I believe the Scooby exhaust manifolds for the UK market have been deliberately manufactured with unequal length primaries to enhance the characteristic flat sound of the boxer. The kids love it, so I am told. Shows you how much they think of the performance, although the turbo does compensate...

I fear that after your Aeon you will not find the Avante engineered to anything like the same standard, and will need to make a lot of changes to the suspension and chassis before you turn your attention to the engine. But assuming that you are prepared to invest the time and money in the necessary work, I would recommend the VAG performance-marque transaxle as the best of the current crop, 5-speed, 260 lb-ft, Quaife LSD available, to which you could fit a Duratec if you like, or maybe an Audi V6 with a turbo or two...

I am concerned that the Avante +2 may not have much in the way of torsional rigidity (I think a lot of the torsional stiffness was lost in the effort to make room for the rear seats), so at the very least you should think about beefing up the existing chassis and bodywork with a decent roll cage.

The range of electric hardware available to the amateur builder is too small to be a realistic proposition in an Avante; the car will be too heavy and go like a milk float.

Looking at all the work you did on the Aeon, you are clearly not afraid of a challenge, and the Avante certainly raises the bar in this respect; at least the Aeon started out with a very competant mid-engine chassis package. Could you re-jig the Avante body to fit the Aeon chassis???

Whatever you choose to do, I look forward to following your progress

Lauren

Any engine choice question was of course going to put the cat among the pidgeons and I really appreciate everyone's viewpoint. If I do decide to keep to a conventional engine, I must admit that the scooby would probably be the best choice for me, producing a respectable amount of power and maybe even utilising the (already installed) gearbox, assuming of course that 200bhp won't make it implode under the torque overdose.


As far as the Avante chassis is concerned, I believe that the +2 had a substantial amount of steel bonded into the shell - mostly a roll cage and box section sills to improve stiffness. Hopefully this means that a bit of extra oomph won't ruffle it's feathers too much.

Although I was very happy with the Aeon, the whole build became a bit of an obsession (with financial input to match), so it has 'been decided' my Avante is going be done on a very low budget. Also, my driving style has calmed down a lot in recent years so I have convinced myself that I will be happy with a bit less power and handling which might be less precise than I am used to. I guess only time will tell ......

Subaru but I am obviously biased, that said it has to be the easiest cheapest way to get the extra power, and there are lots available and more than enough info on the web to get it going. If you do go the Scuby route I have said it before but make sure you get the donor cars vin number you will need it if you want any spares from Subaru.
If you are fitting it to stock VW chassis suspension and breaks the only time you will get to use all that extra power in on a dry flat straight road between 30mph and 80mph, 0mph to 30mph all you will do with that power is tramp, add a bend bump or a bit of rain you front end will have a mind of its own and your rear will always try to over take the front. When you do get that bit of straight flat dry road you have to make sure that you have half a mile of clear road in front just to make sure you can stop. Having said all that the smile on my face the times I found that nice flat clear dry road it was a fantastic feeling.

Dirk