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vpogv
11-11-2008, 06:43 PM
Has anybody relocated the parking brake to the side of or completely away from the tunnel? Since I am reusing my bus box the shifter rod will be above he tunnel and I really do not want the e-brake in front of the shifter for a number of reasons mainly comfort and cosmetic. Thoughts?

Big Birds Car
11-11-2008, 07:17 PM
I had thought of movng the handbrake to the drivers side pod utilising an XJS handbrake lever, my thoughts were to open up the area where the pocket is so that access for a hand wouldn't be too compromised and fit a large steel plate on the inside that the lever could be fixed to but I just ended up doing what most people have and used the stock system and shortening the cables to suit.
The XJS handbrake was located between the drivers seat and the inner sill on the production Jaguar but worked in such away that it was in the lower position even when on so that you could get in and out without it getting in your way. I assume it would be the same in the states.

Nic
11-11-2008, 07:59 PM
Someone on samba used the parking brake from a Ford Focus and mounted it on the passenger side of the tunnel. He had to cut an access hole in the side of the tunnel, but I think you could probably do the same thing.

vpogv
11-11-2008, 08:41 PM
You know that never dawned on me that I could just move it to the passenger side. Cables aren't that wide and I bet I could fit the e-brake pretty much next to the shifter without really loosing much room. I will have a little bit of a wait still, but once the chassis is back in the garage I will pull the seats down and see where we're at.

vpogv
11-11-2008, 11:29 PM
... and here it is (http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=286613&highlight=focus+brake). Thanks guys for the input. My mind was stuck on an under the dash kind of set up and never got thinking any easier. :dunce:

Kym
12-11-2008, 02:09 PM
Only snag is that the seats are a tight fit without a handbrake to allow for. If this was done it would need to be done on the passenger side as in Australia the drivers seat must be adjustable to pass registration.

Kym

vpogv
12-11-2008, 03:58 PM
No regulations for adjustable seats here, but I would put it on the passenger side (driver's side in Aus.) so I will make it work.... I hope.

Spacenut
12-11-2008, 10:03 PM
Hi Pog - over here legislation has been relaxed regarding hydraulic parking brakes, 'cos Citroen kept using them even when UK regulations said they shouldn't :protest:

Anyway, now everyone is allowed to use hydraulic park brakes there are a plethora of standard and fly-off types available (the Jag brake that BBC described above was a fly-off handbrake), but also a number of "line lock" type systems that operate on push buttons and stuff.

Would a drag-style line lock on the rear circuit satisfy US regs?

Just a thought. The handbrake can be very obtrusive in a Nova/Sterling, although mine acts as a handy armrest :D

Lauren

Nic
12-11-2008, 11:20 PM
AND if you want to be uber cool :cool1: ... you get a hand brake level designed by the MAN himself... Richard Oaks
http://www.triggerhandbrakes.com/index.htm
I think the clubman is what would work best.

CyCo
12-11-2008, 11:44 PM
Yeah, been thinking off getting one myself, and damn the expense! They are ubercool. :cool1:

The Clubman would be the one to use if you're going to mount it on the side of the tunnel, and the Flat Floor would be for the top of the tunnel. I emailed them earlier this year when I was a little more cashed up about which one. They don't have one based on the VW Beetle, but suggested a slight mod to the tunnel. Since I was thinking about relocating the hand brake back a bit, could do it at the same time.

8]

backyard_wrenchin
13-11-2008, 12:27 AM
This is what I came up with from the left overs from my eclipse donor car.
http://i197.photobucket.com/albums/aa176/backyard_wrenchin/parkingbrake2.jpg
http://i197.photobucket.com/albums/aa176/backyard_wrenchin/seatsinterior.jpg
http://i197.photobucket.com/albums/aa176/backyard_wrenchin/harness2.jpg

vpogv
13-11-2008, 01:33 AM
How does that e-brake work? Lift the hand brake which will lift the passenger side cables up thus engaging the parking brake? Can't see how else it would work.

letterman7
13-11-2008, 02:15 AM
That's what it looks like to me! Hell of a through-bolt there, Hank! Line-locks are illegal in the US to use as parking brakes. P/brakes need to be a mechanically set device, so in theory even a stand-alone hydraulic system would be illegal. We'll see...I've got one for my car when I get to it.. :twisted:

backyard_wrenchin
13-11-2008, 03:05 AM
the bar on the right side slides on a shoulder bolt when you pull the lever up, the tab on the right of the shaft rotates and pushes the bar forward tighening the cables.
http://i197.photobucket.com/albums/aa176/backyard_wrenchin/100_0383.jpg
Vpogv here you go.
http://i197.photobucket.com/albums/aa176/backyard_wrenchin/rsideenginecompartment.jpg
http://i197.photobucket.com/albums/aa176/backyard_wrenchin/lsideenginecompartment.jpg
http://i197.photobucket.com/albums/aa176/backyard_wrenchin/enginecompartment.jpg

Alzax3
13-11-2008, 08:09 AM
Time to show my ignorance: Rick, what does "Line-locks are illegal in the US to use as parking brakes." refer to? (The 'Line-locks' bit) :confused1:

Kym
13-11-2008, 09:26 AM
Line locks are used to split the front brakes from the rear allowing the front brakes to be locked off under pressure. Great for burn outs. Also illegal in australia.

letterman7
13-11-2008, 12:13 PM
Time to show my ignorance: Rick, what does "Line-locks are illegal in the US to use as parking brakes." refer to? (The 'Line-locks' bit) :confused1:
Yep, what Kym said. Essentially they block off half of the braking system, either front or rear. Nothing more than a valve on the brake line!

Spacenut
13-11-2008, 01:12 PM
The one I have seen are set by a push button when you apply the parking brake. Depending on which circuit the valve is in, the brakes stay locked either at the front or the back (or OSF and NSR if you have a diagonally split system :D)

As Kym says, they are popular with the drag race crowd because you can lock the front brakes on the line and light the rear tyres in the burn-out box without diving off into the wall. I wondered if hydraulic parking brakes were legal in the US so that a system of this type could be used, but it seems it isn't.

So it seems that thanks to those naughty guys at Citroen we can use hydraulic parking brakes in Europe!

Lauren

Big Birds Car
13-11-2008, 02:09 PM
Citroen aren't the only ones with weird handbrakes, Audi use a button instead of a lever but I don't know if it is a hydraulic system or an electro machanical one.

jimcub
13-11-2008, 02:54 PM
My old renault had an electric parking brake and so does my Picasso, both have auto release on them.

Peter
14-11-2008, 10:31 AM
Try Volvo 240/245 handbrake assembly, fits flat to the top of the tunnel so it can be mounted anywhere and by using a couple of off the shelf lengths of steel M8 tubing you can run the original cables over the top of the chassis.
I fitted my gear change (Skoda 1300) first and it just happened to be in over the handbrake position and then I worried about a handbrake and I too looked at various types including umberella handle, side mounted, hydraulic, (illegal then) etc and after driving my local scapyard nuts came up with the Volvo one for £5, has a bandbrake warning switch built in as well and is fully adjustable. cables just need a bit triming off of the threaded part.
Peter
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v219/Ukhozi/inside/handbrakeassy.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v219/Ukhozi/inside/handbrakevolvowords.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v219/Ukhozi/rear/leftreart-tube.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v219/Ukhozi/inside/DSC00117.jpg

vpogv
14-11-2008, 02:02 PM
I need to get the e-brake off of the tunnel which is the problem. Thanks for the suggestion though Peter.

Peter
23-11-2008, 10:53 AM
Might sound like a daft question but why do you need to clear the centre tunnel? :confused1: My set up could be mounted as far back as the rear of the chassis as need be? Are you sitting so low your elbow would hit it? :laugh:

vpogv
23-11-2008, 03:03 PM
Peter -
Since the car came with a bus box the nose cone sits 2-3inches higher thus putting the shift rod above the tunnel. If I kept the e-brake above the tunnel I would be forced to raise that up in order to mount it over the shift rod. I hope this picture kind of shows what I am talking about:

http://pogspalace.com/gallery/data/media/26/DSC02012.JPG

I hated how the shifter was set so far back so it will need to be moved forward giving me two options - either move the ebrake forward as well or move it off the tunnel.

Peter
23-11-2008, 04:09 PM
Ah HA, all is clear now. I have a cunning plan, so cunning even the weasels don't know it, (OK, enough of Blackadder).
How about a Mercedes 190E unit mounted on the side of the tunnel and a one into two cable connector behind the seat side area to reduce interference with the seat, and on over the rear suspension tube. Cables can be made up by Speedy Cables (http://www.speedycables.co.uk) to your spec but I guess you must have someone simular in the States.
If you take a look under most cars (including the 190E) you will find a one into two gadget on the handbrake system of one sort or another or you could make one and incorprate adjusters as well.
Peter
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v219/Ukhozi/Merchandbrake.jpg
This is the same as on my LHD Mercedes 190e Cosworth so I guess they are all the same LH && RH
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v219/Ukhozi/handbrakeoneintotwo.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v219/Ukhozi/handbrakecombo.jpg
And just to clear up the hydraulic thing, no you can't fit one, it's officially called an "emergency brake" not a "hand brake" and is for when a complete hydraulic failure happens as well as parking, so no line locks.

vpogv
23-11-2008, 10:28 PM
That's pretty much what i'm looking for, except it needs to be mountable on the passenger side (U.S. style that is). Been browsing Ebay for my options so we'll see.

CyCo
24-11-2008, 02:15 AM
It's already been mentioned, but why not go for a Trigger handbrake? I'd go for a Clubman (http://www.triggerhandbrakes.com/clubman.htm) for the mounting on the side of the tunnel. They're £71.66 (not including p&h) (that's around $106 USD),but sure looks the goods.

:thumbup:

Big Birds Car
24-11-2008, 08:38 AM
And just to clear up the hydraulic thing, no you can't fit one, it's officially called an "emergency brake" not a "hand brake" and is for when a complete hydraulic failure happens as well as parking, so no line locks.

Eeerrrrr Yes you can, so long as it is a totally separate system to the foot brake hydraulic's. (so line locks no but hydraulics yes).

Spacenut
24-11-2008, 12:53 PM
Yes, that was my understanding as well. The hydraulic handbrakes I have seen come with their own master cylinder, although I am not sure if they are supposed to plumb into existing hydraulic circuits (so only the master cylinder is independant) or have their own slave cylinders/calipers etc.

Lauren

Peter
25-11-2008, 06:56 PM
Yes you can have hydraulic handbrake but it must be a completely separate circuit as in master cylinder, supply, lines and callipers so you would need to mount two callipers to the selected discs (front or rear), otherwise if there was a leak on the brake line adjacent to the brake calliper your 'inline' handbrake wouldn't work either. What you cannot do, and it would be bad practice anyway, would be to have your handbrake using ANY part of the normal hydraulics of the cars braking normal system.
On the subject of location of the Mercedes lever, that is from a LH drive model, same as mine, it fits next to the drivers seat, it's only about 1/2" thick including bolt heads.

vpogv
14-07-2009, 04:02 AM
Replying again to my own post as I am a bit stuck. I have no good way to get to the e-brake tubes in the tunnel to cut the existing ones to the size I need. The small access hole on the back of the tunnel just isn't big enough to get any sort of tools in there. My options seem to be limited to running 2 new tubes up to the back of the tunnel then keep the last 12" or so of the cable exposed to where it will tie into the emergency brake. Or run the tubes through the passenger side rear wall and ignore the tunnel all together?

You can see below how the ebrake runs, the cables will attach to the end (just to the left of my thumb in the first picture.

http://pogspalace.com/gallery/data/media/26/DSC02249.JPG

http://pogspalace.com/gallery/data/media/26/DSC02251.JPG

letterman7
14-07-2009, 11:53 AM
Looking at the photos, it appears that the little metal gizmo behind your thumb is drilled to accept two cables from the donor car. I'm assuming that you plan to slip that into the tunnel? If so, either way you're going to need access to that hookup, so a small cutout on top of the tunnel in front of the inspection plate could be made with no detriment to the integrity of the tunnel (don't get too carried away, though!). Once the hole is cut, simply save the piece cut out for a pattern, or weld a couple small tabs back inside the tunnel to support that piece so you can screw it back into position. You'll need to keep as much of the geometry of the original cable routing as possible with that ebrake so that the brakes apply evenly. Though...it's a misnomer...the ebrake is really just a parking brake!

vpogv
14-07-2009, 01:00 PM
Looking at the photos, it appears that the little metal gizmo behind your thumb is drilled to accept two cables from the donor car. I'm assuming that you plan to slip that into the tunnel? If so, either way you're going to need access to that hookup, so a small cutout on top of the tunnel in front of the inspection plate could be made with no detriment to the integrity of the tunnel (don't get too carried away, though!). Once the hole is cut, simply save the piece cut out for a pattern, or weld a couple small tabs back inside the tunnel to support that piece so you can screw it back into position. You'll need to keep as much of the geometry of the original cable routing as possible with that ebrake so that the brakes apply evenly. Though...it's a misnomer...the ebrake is really just a parking brake!

Correct in regards to the metal pieces where the cables hook up to. I can slip it into the tunnel or leave it outside. I am leaning towards leaving it out of the tunnel to keep it simple and give me enough room to work. Think a 4-5" square cut is too much of a cut for the tunnel?

Peter
14-07-2009, 01:42 PM
I would be inclined to run the single cable from the lever outside the tunnel to a balance bar next to the gearbox and hence out to the two wheels.

letterman7
14-07-2009, 02:35 PM
Ok...dumb question: how hard would it be to change the cable on the lever itself? I'm thinking if you can fabricate something for the ends, you may be able to simply slot a new cable through the existing VW tubes then fasten to both the lever and the splitter block at the back over the tranny.

vpogv
14-07-2009, 02:56 PM
Ok...dumb question: how hard would it be to change the cable on the lever itself? I'm thinking if you can fabricate something for the ends, you may be able to simply slot a new cable through the existing VW tubes then fasten to both the lever and the splitter block at the back over the tranny.

Changing the cable on the lever would not be that difficult but I am having a hard time picturing what you are suggesting Rick. Correct me if I am wrong but the cable tubes go from the rear from horns all the way to the stock parking brake location. In order to use the existing tubes I have to cut them off to the length I need. Unless I cut a good sized access hole I won't have enough room to cut the existing tubes where they will end where I need them too.

To avoid any confusion the parking brake is mounted behind the stock location and the splitter block is only 12" from the nose of the transmission.

Thanks for all of the suggestions so far.

letterman7
14-07-2009, 04:11 PM
That's true...mine were loose enough to be able to snap off the weld points. I was thinking the same thing on yours, or, better yet, pick whichever side you wanted the cable to come out (which looks like the passenger side at this point), and see if you can't break the ebrake tube loose on that side. There are only a couple of welds holding the tubes. My thought here is if you can salvage the tube hole, use Peter's suggestion from earlier in the thread and run a new tube through that hole and out a hole you'll drill for the ebrake cable. This is assuming using a new cable section on the brake itself, of course. That will enable you to run a fresh length of cable from the brake, through the tube and out the back.
Or...just forget about trying to follow the existing tubes and just run your own (as above) right out the back. Where the clutch and throttle cables come out is just a very thin piece of metal, and it's pretty well open once you take the rubber boots off of everything. On retrospect, that would be the easiest choice - drill a small hole in the tunnel next to your lever assembly and thread another tube through that and out the back. Once you tack the front part of the tube in place, moving it around and tacking the back should be a snap.

vpogv
14-07-2009, 05:00 PM
Hopefully NAPA will have some small diameter tubing that will do the trick.

:crossfinger:

Spacenut
14-07-2009, 10:16 PM
Hi Pog - I would be inclined to keep the cables outside of the tunnel too. My reasoning is thus - you have a single heavy duty cable guide running from the handbrake lever to the surface escutcheon plate, but most of this will be concealed by the passenger seat squab, and the cable is shrouded so your passengers won't complain of grease on their elbows. The escutcheon plate needs to be attached to the tunnel, but this will be concealed by the passenger seat backrest so won't be obvious. The equaliser assembly will also be out of sight alongside and behind the seatback, and you could weld threaded adjusters onto the side of the tunnel to adjust the cable tension from inside the car. All of this gubbins could be readily concealed even with the seatbacks folded forward by putting in a false panel that runs across the car at the height of the centre tunnel.

The centre tunnel provides nearly all of the torsional stiffness in an unsupported VW floorpan. There are ways of restoring the integrity of the tunnel if it is compromised, but I would be inclined not go down this path if possible.

Lauren

Peter
17-07-2009, 03:52 PM
Running the tubes outside is the only really viable option, I ran mine from the Volvo handbrake (which in your case would have had to sit on four spacers to clear the change lever) outside the tunnel, through the rear bulkhead/chassis joint to over the gearbox and terminate where the original flexible outers from the brake back plates ended.
Just as easy would be to go from lever, short (3") cable to centre of balance bar, bracket with adjusters to side of tunnel 2" behind that and then the two cables from there throught the bulkhead to left and right, the lower one more or less direct to right brake and the top one swinging over box to the left brake. You could use the original flixi cables from the rear and new steel tubes from there to the bracket with original inners with the fronts chopped off and clamps onto the balance bar.

vpogv
18-07-2009, 01:36 PM
Going to run it on the outside and come in next to the tunnel on the passenger side. Having a hard time finding 3/8" ID tubing, best I found is 1/2" OD from the electrical section at the local hardware store. I will dig around a little more today, worst case I use the big tubing.

vpogv
20-07-2009, 04:13 AM
Finished up except for the final coat of paint for some protection - thoughts?

Where the tubes dump out next to the parking brake.
http://pogspalace.com/gallery/data/media/26/DSC02255.JPG

The whole parking brake set up. Will have to figure out the ends for the parking brake but shouldn't be an issue.
http://pogspalace.com/gallery/data/media/26/DSC02256.JPG

Silver tubes are the parking brake tubes (freshly painted). Simple, short runs and most importantly clears the nose of the trans.
http://pogspalace.com/gallery/data/media/26/DSC02257.JPG