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benherron
18-11-2009, 09:11 PM
I'm interested as Uni give out huge grants to start up a business and being vehicle design....would be very interested to help/start up.
Is there a market for new "old" kit cars such as the two below?

This would obviously depend on the moulds.....this line is the dodgy part......."in fact everything but the top body section"
I've asked the seller to elaborate...

how easy is it to make your own moulds.....could you/me make moulds for our cars or is it something that requires special tools.
Peter if you read this.....does anyone have original mark1 Eagle SS moulds or were they changed for mark2/TEAC?
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=130345606017#ht_1263wt_1167


Similarly I like this one.....MCCoy Kit Car
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=170408361830&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT#ht_724wt_1167

Phill
19-11-2009, 08:59 AM
It's very easy to make a mould from an existing shape. It's not very different from making a grp panel from a mould - almost identical in fact but you will need to provide re-inforcement and in some cases flanges and design the mould to be broken down into sections if the moulding has under cuts.

No specialist tools required. Just a lot of workspace, a bucket, and some brushes and rollers.

Alex is the expert - I am sure he can explain it in more detail.

The real problem is selling the kits you produce :(

Big Birds Car
19-11-2009, 09:30 AM
TEAC bought the original moulds from the guy I bought an Eagle chassis and body from. They were in a bit of a state and TEAC supposedly sorted them out. As far as I know they were the only original moulds so if they have modified them for the 'MK2' then that's all you will have.
I believe there was one panel missing that they moulded from another car so they were complete. The main body structure would have been the same just the sills and maybe other little bits altered.
The moulds were up for grabs only a few months back on evilbay, as TEAC decided to not go forward with the project.
Older kits are only good for people who want spares as they need a lot of alterations to comply with IVA or to enable modern running gear to be used.
Take a look at the Sylve Jester, originally designed for the Mk1 Fiesta running gear complete, well Mk1's are now sort after and have become classic cars and becoming rare, so a new company has taken it on to use the complete running gear from the KA, this has managed to get built (much alteration to the chassis and body but essentially still a Jester) but not manufactured. Not wanting to be the proctor of doom I doubt that it will be manufactured in the current climate and that is a company that already exists and was looking at adding to their portfolio of cars.

benherron
19-11-2009, 12:33 PM
Cool that's really interesting, do we know if teac managed to sell the eagle moulds on evilbay or how much they wanted?

Alzax3
19-11-2009, 01:11 PM
Or even the panels - VERY few people are willing to spend even what it costs to turn out a replacement panel from a mould let alone an amount that would give a bit of return for the effort - ask Sam Cobley!

But if I can be of any help let me know. And if you want to pull a mould from the damaged but unused Mk 4 bodyshell I've got here that could be arranged too.... :)

hildi25
19-11-2009, 02:23 PM
I made molds off of my redesigned sterling in the past, but havent sold anything? Recently I decided that the best route to make any money was to sell the car completed minus the motor. I just started putting it on Craigslist. Usually kit car people are broke and dont want to spend a dime, so the market is better if you target peolpe who have money to spend. I'm still in start up/ crash mode, and honestly may give up on my dream due to lack of funds.
Aren't there laws about copycating another persons design? I would be leary about making molds off of someone elses design and wouldn't bother. You have to change design by at least 10 percent to legally and morally do it. Or else its stealing. PM me if you are interested in trying to help or market, cause I have lost most of my motivation to do anything in this industry.

Rob

Alzax3
19-11-2009, 02:32 PM
The amount of work to sort the Mk 4 shell ready for moulding would mean it wasn't 'original' anyway and sorting it to take modern tail lights and legal headlights would probably constitute enough of a change anyway. As far as is known the Nova production 'rights' rest with an Indian 'gentleman' who bought them from Sam Cobley in the late '90s. Whatever the legal ins and outs, there is no real market for new VW based kits in the UK, and creating one round a custom chassis and modern components will just show up how difficult it is to adapt the Nova away from it's Beetle origins. IF you could get it into the Ultima bracket of sorted engineering, performance, desireability and price their might be a business in it for someone.......

Big Birds Car
19-11-2009, 02:59 PM
I believe that the Eagle moulds were been sold along with the rights to produce so not an issue in that respect, just not enough interest in a car designed so long a go and that has very little in the way of pedigree ie. racing heritage or supercar performance from the start, remember it's a beetle and once assoiciated with said humble underpinings it puts it firmly in the niche market area.
Sort one out with a single donor set up or easily sourced parts such as those from the 7's along with either a monocoque or seperate chassis so everything is bolt on and you may have a chance. People don't, can't or are unwilling to cobble a kit together nowadays, they want something that can be done easily, quickly (sorry BB) and the end result be fun and reasonably useable.
The original Nova and the Eagles do not come into these categories.
My advise would be take a look at the SylvaAuto kits . Jeremy Phillips has been in the game for over 25 years and has just launched a new kit for the road and track. Not what you may like but the fact that he is still in the game producing kits that people buy and build means he knows what to do. His kits are not overly expensive (more than I can justify at the moment) especially in comparison to say some of the GT40 or Cobra replicas.
Another one to look up maybe the Quantum lot as they are still going.
There have been many kit producers over the past 3 or 4 decades that are no longer in existance do some history research and find out what happened to them and why before you embark on something that could become very costly and disheartening.

bobbybrown
19-11-2009, 05:15 PM
Thread moved as this is not a for sale thread.

Spacenut
19-11-2009, 10:11 PM
Alas, all of the above is true. But its all too easy to get caught up in the magic of it all - the sure knowledge that your perfect dream car will be of interest to others. It is, of course, but they are not in awe of its technical specification, they merely wish to appreciate the audacious styling from a position of safety, i.e. non-ownership :lmfao:

My own personal vision of the Nova differs from everyone else's, and if I went ahead and commissioned Alex to mould a new shell for me, I doubt whether I would be able to interest anyone else in splitting the costs, which would make for a very costly exercise, with the omnipresent threat of IVA non-compliance at the end of it.

I know that BBC is right, and the Sylvas and Quantums (and Tiger and Robin Hood for that matter - even Vindicator!) are the kits that keep on going, year in, year out, but for me its all about radical styling that the major manufacturers would not contemplate, and compared with that, meritous though they are, these long-lived manufacturers produce products that have all the appeal of wet cardboard. Everyone has modified their Nova in some way, with no two cars being alike in every way. I can't see any of us reaching a consensus on what constitutes the perfect car, can you?

Lauren

Peter
20-11-2009, 11:55 AM
It is a sad fact that interest in kit cars as a whole has diminished over the past decade to the point where there are really only 3 cars available from multiple sources, 7s, Cobras and exotic road/race like the ultima costing tens of thousands. One reason why restoring old kits is popular but sadly usually undertaken by people who have wildly under estimated their resources, (space, tools, finances, etc), skills and partners intolerance for bits everywhere, petrol fumes and “the money pit in the garage/yard” (the death of many a ‘project’)..
Modifying an old kit for more modern donors and production is usually just not feasible and even designing a “new” car even whilst keeping the essence of the original is both difficult (see ‘Mini, Fiat 500’, VW Beetle’ etc.) and costly and is really a whole new car from the wheels up. Tim tried to develop a ‘new’ look for the SS whilst keeping to the original shape basing it on MR2 running gear and a new tubular chassis but even as the design was in development it was clear there would be a very small market and it would be based on a car that was fast becoming obsolete and harder to get, so despite interest it was dropped.
Designing from scratch is not only easier in the long run but more rewarding but I can only see it as a personal exercise rather than a commercially viable proposition.
Somewhere there is a dissertation from decades ago on designing a kit car and the practical considerations to be taken into account such as ideal donor, styling, functionality, sequence of construction and costing, etc. and “Automobile design from concept though prototype to obscurity”, I have no idea where they are now as I have lost them in the move to Spain but if you need any help just ask any of us, there is a huge pool of experience and knowledge here.
Just stay objective, focused and thinking way outside the box. There is nothing new in automotive design and engineering, just the way it’s shaped and put together.
Remerber no two cars are the same and there is no such thing as "just a car"