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View Full Version : Riechert type 4 cooling



benherron
10-01-2010, 06:45 PM
Anyone seen this engine cooling before? Its for a type 4 and certainly looks different.

http://1.2.3.12/bmi/meetingsvw.free.fr/hermanville/hermanville_2001/DSCF0615.jpg
http://1.2.3.12/bmi/www.maehnz.de/riechertmotorentechnik/en/ibr18.jpg

Alzax3
10-01-2010, 08:13 PM
Links are broken at the moment, Ben!

benherron
10-01-2010, 11:06 PM
That's odd they're working on both my comps.

:confused1:

here's another
http://www.kaeferfriseure.de/upload/image/riechert/riechert_typ4.jpg

It's called a riechert type 4 horisontal cooling system. It's a nicer look than the upright porsche ones which face towards the rear of the car, not sure if that would be an issue for our cars?

letterman7
11-01-2010, 02:33 AM
I do remember reading about those somewhere. One of our big T4 engine builders did some testing with that, the Porsche style shroud, his own designed upright shroud and stock tin. I'll have to see if I can find the results again... basically, being very similar to a Corvair shroud, it worked, but not as well as a stock shroud or one of his custom upright tins.

Alzax3
11-01-2010, 09:02 AM
It's pretty, and I can see that it would give a bit more space over the engine - but it would probably be harder than the stock unit to duct a supply of cold external air in from outside. Looks a bit more vulnerable too and I've never liked taking belts round 90 degree bends like that.....

jimcub
12-01-2010, 03:41 PM
Be suprised what you can do with a belt, I used to lace leather belts that had to cross over when I was a lad.
Would need a seperate oil cooler as well , but a large engine may need one to get that oil cool anyway.

benherron
12-01-2010, 03:51 PM
The eagle has a vented 'bonnet', so my idea was to attach an external oil cooler to the underneath of that. Not sure if that hot air would ruin the air temp entering the fan.

letterman7
12-01-2010, 06:08 PM
The eagle has a vented 'bonnet', so my idea was to attach an external oil cooler to the underneath of that. Not sure if that hot air would ruin the air temp entering the fan.
That's a major no-no with aircooled motors. That was a big thing in the '70's with the upright shrouds - putting the oil cooler right in front of the fan. All that did was raise engine temps even faster!

Spacenut
13-01-2010, 01:03 PM
From the aesthetic point of view, I love the look of this cooling system. Watching the overhead shots of the Porsche 917Ks in "Le Mans" is where the appeal lies for me - the flat-12 engine used the same overhead fan design (and with ultralightweight flywheel, the fan stops dead the minute you cut the ignition :D).

I've seen the vee-belt pulley system used before, with a pair of jockey wheels to translate the vertical belt motion into horizontal movement. As long as it is aligned properly I can't see this being any worse than having three accessory pulleys driven from the crank - although there are longer unsupported spans involved, so throwing the belt may be an issue.

It would certainly look mean showing through the exposed top deck of an Eagle - a nice radiused bell intake would further complement the look, although you would almost certainly have to put a mesh grille over the fan to stop curious fingers getting savaged!

Lauren

benherron
14-01-2010, 02:34 PM
I received a reply from LAperformace regarding the fan, the kit costs £350 without the porsche fan/alternator, depending if that doesnt cost too much, looks good value against the £1600 for the porsche upright.
Is 100% bolt on, no need to cut to fit, as per the porsche style up rights.

Here's a photo of one of the kits they're fitting adm.
http://i620.photobucket.com/albums/tt288/benherron/coolingkit.jpg


I was looking to do build a nice 1600 after I get the eagle on the road, but this might be an option.
Does anyone use a T4 engine on the forum? Is it a big job or simply a bolt on?

Alzax3
14-01-2010, 06:19 PM
I had one once in an earlier car, so did Spacenut. They're nice, though much longer than a Beetle unit, so you'll have to alter the back end quite a bit to enclose it. The fuel injection system is fine when it works, but spares may be difficult now. They also require a different driven plate (type three if I remember correctly, it's been 25 years since I had to sort that problem!)

Spacenut
14-01-2010, 10:01 PM
It cost me a complete rear panel, most of which had been cut away to allow the T4 to stick out. Nova Nigel had an even bigger problem cramming in the 914 engine, which has unique cast alloy cooling ducts running from the crank-mounted cooling fan to the cylinders. Nigel stood his numberplate off the panel so a cold air intake could operate behind it, and he also made the rear panel deeper to cover more of the engine. I guess a horizontal fan kit would reduce the length of the engine as the end-mounted centrifugal fan and ducting can be removed.

Mine was the 75 bhp twin Solex single choke engine, off a bus I think. It seemed to go well enough, when it was going!

Lauren

Alzax3
15-01-2010, 01:32 PM
You'd still have to find some way of hiding the exhaust though Lauren, as it all sticks out from the back of the engine and makes like a 4x4 foot step if left to its own devices! I couldn't get the carb setup to work, (they probably just needed a refurb kit, but I didn't know much back then!) so went back to the Bosch computer system.

benherron
15-01-2010, 02:00 PM
If they can fit a porsche style upright cooled t4 in a beetle then this type of fan would fit length wise wouldn't it? :crossfinger:

Alzax3
15-01-2010, 05:24 PM
Can't see why not - the problem is more the way the Nova rear end sweeps up, leaving the back of the engine and the exhaust exposed, and all of it low down. With a huge engine like Bushboy's, a lot of it is right at the top of the engine bay, and the exhausts come out the side so he didn't have to butcher the rear that much - I ended up cutting off the back of the car and adding an 8" fillet all the way round - really my first introduction to re-styling and quite successful! :cheers:

benherron
15-01-2010, 08:21 PM
I found a page saying that Riechert sell a T1 horisontal fan.

http://translate.google.com/translate?js=y&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&layout=1&eotf=1&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.maehnz.de%2Friechertmotorentech nik%2Fde%2Fluftfilt_axialluftgeblaese.htm&sl=de&tl=en

http://www.maehnz.de/riechertmotorentechnik/de/bilder/luftfilt_axialluftgeblaese_1.jpg

At €1350 it's pricy, but about the same price as buying a T4, and then a LAperformance fan/alternator. and would be lots easier to fit.

Alzax3
15-01-2010, 08:34 PM
That's a lot of money for a fan - nice, pretty engineering notwithstanding........I think if I wanted performance there would be better ways of spending the money on an type 1 engine, or fitting a buying and fitting a type 4.

benherron
15-01-2010, 11:19 PM
Who said anything about performance? :tongue1: If I wanted a performance car I really wouldn't hve brought a beetle based kit car.
Not saying you can't get performance out of a beetle, and by no means Is this to be a show car but speed isn't the main goal for this car.

Yes it is a lot of money for basically a fan, but i'd rather spend it on the fan than a crankshaft or pistons which id never see. I know people will disagree with that logic but at least it would make me happier to pop the hood and show it off, knowing it's not just a beetle engine.

Alzax3
16-01-2010, 09:07 AM
I was just pointing out the cost-for-not-much-benefit aspect - I've no problem with what people choose to fork out for, and in many ways you're getting more physically for your money than you do with a respray!