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suicidesam
03-02-2010, 12:47 PM
Well !!! i love it !! but i hate it !! but i really love it !! :rofl: i cant make my mind up about this one ..??


yep i like it ! :giveup:

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/concept-centaur-i ... 27af0e3d0c (http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/concept-centaur-imp-based-kit-car_W0QQitemZ170440670476QQcmdZViewItemQQptZAutomo biles_UK?hash=item27af0e3d0c)

letterman7
03-02-2010, 01:29 PM
That's a pretty rare car. http://www.imps4ever.info/specials/centaur/index.html
Not quite as over the top as the Probe 16, which I think has better lines, but very weird indeed!

Alzax3
03-02-2010, 06:02 PM
They're seriously small up close, makes the Nova look like an American car in comparison! Only ever see them at shows......

JemP
03-02-2010, 07:13 PM
Didnt they also do one called a Probe? which was so low you got in through the sunroof? Or have I been on the polyester fillers too long?? Is it loosely related to the Durango 95? :)

Alzax3
03-02-2010, 07:26 PM
Not sunroof, little fabric side doors - but otherwise yes. I talked to the owner of a/the road-going one at Newark a few years back - he seemed a bit fed up with people commenting how low it was.....

JemP
03-02-2010, 07:31 PM
Shoulda built a higher car then LOL!!! :)

letterman7
03-02-2010, 07:56 PM
Read here, Jemp: http://www.imps4ever.info/specials/cent ... index.html (http://www.imps4ever.info/specials/centaur/probe/index.html)

Spacenut
03-02-2010, 09:07 PM
The Durango 95 was the fictional steed of Alex and his fellow Droogs in Clockwork Orange. In reality it was one of just three Adams Probe 16 concept cars made. There is a relationship to the Centaur, which is a modified bodyshell from the Probe 15, one of the lowest closed coupe cars ever made (29" high).

The Probe 15 was a one-off, and the electric sliding roof panel (you climbed in over the fixed side windows) has long gone. A mould was taken from the 15 and re-jigged for a VW chassis (the 15 was Hillman Imp based), but never saw production. This was called the Wilde Probe and featured the first of the open-the-window-and-climb-in entry systems.

The early Concept Centaurs featured a higher (fixed) roofline and the Perspex side windows were hinged along the A-pillar for entry. Later cars (like this one) had an even larger production car windscreen and conventional doors. The later Pulsar used the same body style but was allegedly a 2+2. The Centaur is easily the most numerous derivative of this body style.

The 16 will be forever linked to Clockwork Orange, but my favourite derivative was the Probe 2001, of which 4 were made by the Adams brothers and a further 12 made in Scotland.

Like Rick says, its all on the Imp site - together with a fantastic contemporary road report on the 15 (is that the best looking dashboard you ever saw?).

Oh - the Probe 16 was transverse mid-engined, using a BMC 1800 engine and transmission, as was the 2001.

Lauren

JemP
03-02-2010, 10:14 PM
The Imp, better than the Mini? I had a couple of friends who'd argue that it wasn't even a close run thing, you couldget more fun out of an Imp any day. Having never driven one, I don't know.
I do like the Centaur - got a bit of Colani in it :)

jim73vw
03-02-2010, 10:38 PM
Yep, I've seen the one at Newark too - they are tiny up close.

The Imp was a great car, my Dad had one for many years, and so did my Aunt. I was going ot have one as my first car, but our local Imp specialist closed down when I was 17 ! Could have all been so different if I had, rather than the alternative beetle !

Simpatico
03-02-2010, 10:59 PM
Always loved the look of the Probes/Centaurs, one of the few cars to look as futuristic as the Nova.

Most of the web based info on the cars is fairly static/outdated, check out this site for some great info;

http://www.probe2001.com/index.html

Amazingly the Probe 15 that the halfwit previous owner butchered with fabric doors has been superbly restored and lives abroad, France I think. It was brought over for the Marcos 50th party last year, another reason to cry about not attending when the Marcos XP also came over from the US :cry:

thestevie
04-02-2010, 01:23 AM
those side windows are huge

hildi25
04-02-2010, 03:53 AM
thats fugly... :coat:

Spacenut
04-02-2010, 08:23 AM
Always loved the look of the Probes/Centaurs, one of the few cars to look as futuristic as the Nova.

Most of the web based info on the cars is fairly static/outdated, check out this site for some great info;

http://www.probe2001.com/index.html

Amazingly the Probe 15 that the halfwit previous owner butchered with fabric doors has been superbly restored and lives abroad, France I think. It was brought over for the Marcos 50th party last year, another reason to cry about not attending when the Marcos XP also came over from the US :cry:

D'you know, I only found that site last night! Its great to see the Probe 15 fully restored. I actually talked to a previous owner at Stoneleigh, he was absolutely adamant that the car had always had a fixed plywood and filler roof and you climbed in through the empty side window apertures!

After looking at more pictures of the 2001 I am wavering again - I think I like the 16 better now :D

Its also interesting to note that the Wilde Probe (the stillborn VW based derivative of the 15) may still be in existance, plus the staggering number of Centaurs that have gone to Germany (is this some sort of rebellion against the TUV?!!??), including FRV 862X, which used to be white with a 100 bhp Imp Sport engine - I know this because I nearly bought it in the late '80s!

As always, the thick screen rubbers let these cars down, just imagine what they would look like with flush glazing!

I am also delighted to see the Clockwork Orange car is now restored as well :D

Lauren

Spacenut
04-02-2010, 08:30 AM
another reason to cry about not attending when the Marcos XP also came over from the US :cry:

Hi Mark - that's true, and I'm kicking myself as well, but I thought the article and pictures (taken at Castle Combe no less, Marcos' local track) in C&SC was a good substitute for not being there. Especially when the coverage of the event in both the mainstream and kit car press was so pathetic.

And I remain a committed Mantis road car enthusiast as well - why have people got such a downer on them? I saw a purple J-reg car rocket past me on the M27 a few years back - it looked fabulous, in spite of the black smoke pouring out of its exhaust, and the chunky Triumph injection six must have made it a great high speed tourer...

Lauren

jimcub
04-02-2010, 09:49 AM
Who noted the exterior screen demister in the drivering compartment, gives a clue as to how compact it really is.

Simpatico
04-02-2010, 01:01 PM
Yeah the Mantis was groovy! Interior was very well designed. It's always been stated that it was considered ugly yet most people I've spoken to who have seen one say they like it. Shame it didn't last long, would have been interesting to see it compared to the Lotus Eite. I was thinking of going to stay at Jem Marsh's B&B in our Elite just to get hjs take on them!

Another :( moment is realising that the Adams brother themselves were at the 50th, would have loved a chat!

JemP
04-02-2010, 07:32 PM
We are talking about this Marcos Mantis arent we?

http://www.britishcarlinks.com/Marcos.jpg

Alzax3
04-02-2010, 07:54 PM
Yup!

Spacenut
04-02-2010, 10:02 PM
Yes Jem, that's the one - not to be confused with the very wonderful Marcos Mantis XP Le Mans racer. I think I read only 32 cars were made. The moulds ended up with Autotune (who made the Aristocat XK150 replica) for a while. I don't suppose they sold any kits. Their version was Cortina based IIRC...

Lauren

Simpatico
05-02-2010, 12:22 AM
It supposedly got a lot of bad press but think about how hard it is to make a swoopy 4 seater attractive to all and sundry. Lotus struggled, hell
even Lamborghini/Ferrari struggled.

By contrast any 18year old design course student can knock out a dramatic mid engined fried egg.

Spacenut
05-02-2010, 08:21 AM
You're dead right Mark - and all those fried eggs are starting to look very same-y these days. Give me a Lamborghini Espada (or preferably a Marzal, obviously re-engineered with a quad-cam Urraco V8) any time!

I just noticed that Mantis has what looks like a US registration plate. Cool :cool1:

Lauren

JemP
05-02-2010, 11:46 AM
Its ugly!!

Simpatico
06-02-2010, 10:05 PM
It's in the eye of the beholder.

JemP
07-02-2010, 01:38 PM
This beholder says "its ugly!!" :)

Spacenut
07-02-2010, 07:04 PM
They said the Lamborghini Espada was ugly. I rather liked the exaggerated width and low height, even if it didn't look like a "normal" car. I suppose I feel the same way about the Mantis. Incidentally, I read somewhere that the design was altered (the word used was less polite) from the Dennis Adams original - I wonder if that was true, and if so, I wonder what his interpretation would have looked like?

More camber on the windscreen? Different B-pillars or a re-designed quarterlight perhaps? (for me they are perhaps the least endearing parts of the car)

Who knows?

But I think if I was in the market for a full 4-seater GT, the Mantis would be pretty high on my list. Up there with the Brigantis (with either a Jag V12 up front, Espada-style, or an Austin 2.2 transverse 6-cylinder in the back for full contemporary Marzal effect!), a Series 1 Espada, Lancia Gamma, XJ12C...

:D

Lauren

Simpatico
07-02-2010, 10:00 PM
Only bits that jar for me are the kicked up tail section, and the wheels are waaaay too inset in the arches (Marcos seem never to get this aspect right, too far in or too far out)

Ewan Nugent
08-02-2010, 01:45 AM
Hi,

we are develpoing the site mentioned above ... http://www.probe2001.com, we've only been up and running for six weeks or so. We have however gleaned a good deal of information already... see for yourself :please: If you have any info/ancedotes on the Adams Probe series or the Concept Centaur we'd always be glad to hear from you. Contact details are on the website. :drive:
I thought about travelling up to Stirling today to see the MkIII Centaur that is on e-bay .... one of only 3 or 4 produced..... but its just to ugly with that high windscreen. The NkI's were infinetely better looking and I went cuting wood instead. Its curently sitting at £1200, but has not reached its reserve yet

Simpatico
08-02-2010, 08:18 AM
Hope the new owner stays in touch.

JemP
08-02-2010, 01:55 PM
Why did the screen rake change so much? The Probes and the early Centaurs looked so much sexier!
I want a Durango 95 :) I would have to call it a Durango 95 too, sorry Mr Adams :)

Spacenut
08-02-2010, 08:59 PM
Hi,

we are develpoing the site mentioned above ... http://www.probe2001.com, we've only been up and running for six weeks or so. We have however gleaned a good deal of information already... see for yourself :please: If you have any info/ancedotes on the Adams Probe series or the Concept Centaur we'd always be glad to hear from you. Contact details are on the website. :drive:
I thought about travelling up to Stirling today to see the MkIII Centaur that is on e-bay .... one of only 3 or 4 produced..... but its just to ugly with that high windscreen. The NkI's were infinetely better looking and I went cuting wood instead. Its curently sitting at £1200, but has not reached its reserve yet

Thanks Ewan for looking in - your site is very interesting, well done to you for gathering all of the disparate information on the Adams series cars in one easily accessible place! I can't add any more information (maybe Mark - Simpatico - has some interesting snippets in his extensive archive), but I did notice that some of the quotes, and the statements by Richard Oakes regarding the styling similarities between the Nova and the Probe series, which you attibuted to Peter Filmby (his real name is Filby, but we will let that pass because he's had a bit of a downer on Novas in recent years... allegedly), where actually written by Phill Fenton, in the foward to his book about the Nova kit car, and its derivatives. Filby did produce a book in the mid-70s about specialist cars (a theme he has had successive journalists in his employ return to over the years), but although there is something in there about the Probe series I don't think the Centaur got a mention.

The only anecdote I can add is that I nearly made an offer to by FRV 162X (Mk1 Centaur) at the Sandown Park show sometime in the mid-to-late 80s. It was white at the time and had a 100 bhp Imp Sport engine, which sounded very rorty. I also recall that it came up for sale in ebay (and was posted on this site, or its predecessor) a year or two back, located in the Southampton area I think.

Lauren

Simpatico
09-02-2010, 12:26 AM
Why did the screen rake change so much? The Probes and the early Centaurs looked so much sexier!

Just to incorporate some vaguely practical doors I suppose, handy but completely ruined the looks. I can't help thinking a huge opening canopy on the Mk1, a'la Nova, would have been a better idea

Simpatico
09-02-2010, 12:28 AM
maybe Mark - Simpatico - has some interesting snippets in his extensive archive)
Lauren

There have been a few emails back and forth :wink: . Shame you didn't get one Lauren, would be a perfect garage mate for green machine. Just think if they ever needed prop cars for a new series of UFO you could be a one-stop-shop!

Peter
09-02-2010, 12:16 PM
x

Peter
09-02-2010, 12:17 PM
I don't know if to love or curse the Probe, I saw a silver one in Finchley parked up at the road side in 1971 and ever since wanted one but couldn't find a Probe and eventualy bought the SS, (wife, two kids and three house move later) in 1995 and now 15 years and a heck of a LOT of dosh later I'm still not really satisfied with anything else but I love the SS and one day it will be completly finished, promise, :wink: (untill a better idea comes along :whistling: ).

Spacenut
09-02-2010, 01:09 PM
There have been a few emails back and forth :wink: . Shame you didn't get one Lauren, would be a perfect garage mate for green machine. Just think if they ever needed prop cars for a new series of UFO you could be a one-stop-shop!

D'you know, I distinctly recall hearing the UFO theme looping in my head the minute I saw it!

I think the key styling differentiator between the Probe series and the Nova/Eagle is that while the latter are extremely stylised they do still look like conventional mid-engined sports cars in the Lamborghini Miura mould (which is entirely understandable given the circumstances of their birth). The probes on the other hand, would look completely at home on the surface of the moon :D

I like that spaceship look. Very few cars have ever strayed that far from conventionality - the Countach is one production example, and the Vector, but mainly its the concept cars like the PF Modulo, Carabo, SRV etc., that share this look.

Lauren

Phill
10-02-2010, 09:27 AM
When I first saw a Probe back in 1971 I imagined this was the sort of car everyone would be driving by the year 2000. Back then we assumed the moon would also be colonised and we would have space hotels. None of these things have happened. In fact we no longer have supersonic passenger travel and the planned return to the moon has been cancelled. In many ways the late 60's and early 70's seem more futuristic and optimistic than today. And because of over legislation, we no longer enjoy the freedom we had back then to produce such amazing looking cars.

Spacenut
10-02-2010, 06:14 PM
Ahh, all too true I'm afraid. Its why I'm stuck in the 70s groove :D

Although, bizarrely, the amazing creativity of this period was against the backdrop of immense uncertainty - the Cold War, political unrest, and in the UK, economic bankruptsy...

Lauren

bushboy
10-02-2010, 11:34 PM
Ahh, all too true I'm afraid. Its why I'm stuck in the 70s groove :D

Although, bizarrely, the amazing creativity of this period was against the backdrop of immense uncertainty - the Cold War, political unrest, and in the UK, economic bankruptsy...

Lauren


So Lauren what has changed? UK economic bankruptsy (unless you're a bank & can get bailed out by the bankrupt Government), political unrest & the Cold winter.....all still happening.

Though now we do hace PC & H&S gone mad.

bushboy

Alzax3
11-02-2010, 08:21 AM
Biggest difference is that in those days we still had a huge pile of reliable and trusted UK owned manufacturers who produced their product in this country: Airfix, Hornby, Raleigh, Clarks Shoes, Corgi, Holman-Compair, Triumph, ......, (bored with that - add your own list of long-gone or sold-out and/or manufacture overseas) In those days you could get spares for most things, and people thought it was worth repairing an item - who'd get a replacement element for a toaster now? STOP GIBBERING ALEX AND GO AND FIND YOUR PIPE AND SLIPPERS! :coat:

JemP
11-02-2010, 11:25 AM
Even you pipe and slippers will be made in the far far east now (and that doesnt mean Kent!!)
don't get me started on the "global economy"
Someone out there will recognise these lyrics, which are now over 25 years old

Well, my shoes, they come from Singapore,
My flashlight's from Taiwan,
My tablecloth's from Malaysia,
My belt buckle's from the Amazon.
You know, this shirt I wear comes from the Philippines
And the car I drive is a Chevrolet,
It was put together down in Argentina
By a guy makin' thirty cents a day.

Well, this silk dress is from Hong Kong
And the pearls are from Japan.
Well, the dog collar's from India
And the flower pot's from Pakistan.
All the furniture, it says "Made in Brazil"
Where a woman, she slaved for sure
Bringin' home thirty cents a day to a family of twelve,
You know, that's a lot of money to her

Well, you know, lots of people complainin' that there is no work.
I say, "Why you say that for
When nothin' you got is U.S.-made?"
They don't make nothin' here no more,
You know, capitalism is above the law.
It say, "It don't count 'less it sells."
When it costs too much to build it at home
You just build it cheaper someplace else.

Not only were these places UK owned, but they treated their workforce as part of a community, take Cadbury as an example, and the area around Bournville Village! I go through Coventry quite a lot, and up the Foleshill Road you can see the old Cash & Co factory behind the rows of back to back workers houses, provided to workers on a very low rent, they even had their own private swimming pool (which I think was for foremen and above) Coventry was famed for it huge number of cycle makers, car makers and tool makers. There are now no cycle makers in Coventry, just one car maker, ironically the company who make London Taxis (and rear lights for Spartan kitcars!) and the last tool maker to close its doors in Coventry was Matrix Churchill - last known owner? Saddam Hussein!!

Pass me a piar of those Taiwanese slippers Alex, mind you it makes you want to grab a blade (made in Bolivia)

Spacenut
11-02-2010, 10:09 PM
So Lauren what has changed? UK economic bankruptsy (unless you're a bank & can get bailed out by the bankrupt Government), political unrest & the Cold winter.....all still happening.

Though now we do hace PC & H&S gone mad.

I don't know what's changed Martin - maybe today's automotive designs look incredible to the current generation. Somehow it doesn't do it for me - now its merely individual features that I like, rather than the whole thing - like hexagonal central exhausts (so redolent of Gandini's "hexagon period", 1966-68), or the Lamborghini Estouque (reminding us that Ferruccio brought us the Espada 4 decades ago).

I think the crazy legislation has something to do with it, and the rest of the problem is with aerodynamics. Its a big, fat, slab-sided blob - not because it looks good, but because aerodynamics says it must be so. The Veyron is a prime example. All my friends say it looks fantastic, but what they are really saying is "this car goes 250 mph", which isn't the same thing :coat:

I'm fascinated, but at the same time completely baffled by the socio-economic impact on vehicle design. One of these days I'll figure it out - then maybe I'll understand why today's concepts look so unappealing :D

Lauren

thestevie
11-02-2010, 10:49 PM
im not a big fan of the veryon either
i do like the new challenger though.
it has a really angry looking stance.

Simpatico
11-02-2010, 11:16 PM
I'm fascinated, but at the same time completely baffled by the socio-economic impact on vehicle design. One of these days I'll figure it out - then maybe I'll understand why today's concepts look so unappealing :D


The last concepts that made me go weak at the knees were in the early to mid 1990s (Ital Design Nazca M12, Zagato Raptor, and others) during a brief flourish of renewed Italian creativity thanks to inspired, design savvy car bosses like Paulo Cantarella. Since then, nothing...the odd vaguley pleasing one-off like the Zagato Otto Vu and Pininfarina P4/5. But generally the likes of Giugiaro might as well hang up his boots, I mean the Volta? and that Frazer Nash thigumawhatsit? The Bertone Mantide??? Car design has lost it's mojo, and ever more intrusive governments mean it will probably never return.

chazz
12-02-2010, 01:35 AM
the ronn scorpiom is the last thing to really get my attention. some sort of hydrogen hybrid with 450 hp. pretty cool.

Spacenut
12-02-2010, 08:14 AM
im not a big fan of the veryon either
i do like the new challenger though.
it has a really angry looking stance.

I agree with you on the Challenger, but I think it only appeals because it takes all its cues from the original 1970 model. Given the choice, I would trade all of the airbags and gadgets (even the bling wheels) for a 1970 Panther Pink 340 T/A :D

I did some more thinking about this last night, and concluded that the basic structure of our lives hasn't really changed, only the number of gadgets!

You leave your house in the morning (these days some poxy Tudorbethan half-timbered pastische, but essentially still 4 walls and a pitched roof), go to work in a car (maybe a bit smoother-looking, and more fuel efficient, but otherwise little different from a Mk2 Cortina), and that's it - but the gadgets! Plasma telly, ipods, desktop PCs, satnav, fridges running IP... Our lifestyles have changed dramatically over the years. I think the design of a lot of this new tech is ergonomically very good, but the larger elements (buildings in particular) have languished in comparison, and vehicle design is now driven by legislation, to the point where if you came up with something really outrageous (like an opening canopy roof, Heaven forbid!), you just wouldn't be able to get it on the road. Plus you wouldn't be able to sell it, because its difference from the "norm" would convince the Public that it was ugly.

I refer, as always, to the famous Ford Sierra "jelly mould" debate, of 1980. Prior to the introduction of this model, the Cortina Mk5 was a smart-looking car. Ford floods the market with cheap Sierras and says "the Sierra is a good-looking car", and suddenly everything that isn't a jelly mould is ugly. Go figure :confused1:

Lauren

JemP
12-02-2010, 08:44 AM
Actually the modern day car hasn't really moved on since it was first invented, not many objects are still powered in the same way as they were 100 years ago. Okay the methods of mixing petrol might have changed a little bit in recent times but the concept is still exactly the same. The concept of the internal combustion engine powered by fossil fuels is so archaic in comparison with other gadgets. The only other area that I can think of which is as archaic is the actual power creation industry itself, still reliant on coal and gas.
These resources should have been surpassed with better technology many years ago, but they remain, and will do as long as theres money to be made out of the black gold! And anyone inventing a power device capable of threatening their hold will end up joining Rudolph Diesel for a swim in the Channel!!

thestevie
12-02-2010, 08:55 AM
True Lauren I only like it because it takes its styling from the 70s.

JemP
12-02-2010, 02:27 PM
Depressingly looking at ebay kit cars auctions today, 30 of the 70 cars listed are 7even copies.