PDA

View Full Version : Nova cab heating idea



mattswan2512
09-03-2010, 08:54 AM
Hi all I was pondering over how to make a decent demist/heater set up for my nova and had a bit of an idea, please point out if this won't work but,

if I was to run copper pipe down a section of my exaust and then twist it around the exhaust, ensuring this section was detachable. Then insulate the pipe and run it back to the cab to a matrix ( kind of like a light bulb fillament setup) I beleive this would provide sufficient heating for the cab. I could use a escort matrix heater box. This would hopefully heat the water sufficiently thus yay heat in the cab.

The only prob I can see is possible vibration from the engine but if bracketed to the chassis corectly on rubber grommits I think it could work? Any help or points please flag it up many thanks!

Spacenut
09-03-2010, 12:32 PM
Hi Matt - I think Mick (Micksrednova) has been working on this type of heat exchanger system for his car. There's no reason in principle why this approach shouldn't work, although whether it would work better than the stock air-to-air heating system (you have one more interface, i.e. air-water-air) is debatable.

My favourite aircooled heating approach remains the oil cooler radiator. Keep the engine cooling radiator (obviously), but tap off an oil supply to a separate matrix in the cab. As soon as the engine is warm, so are you! The only issue would be with controlling the flow when you didn't need heating, but I don't see why a normal water heater control valve can't be used. Connect the heater matrix in parallel with the engine oil cooler and obs your buncle :D

Lauren

Alzax3
09-03-2010, 07:21 PM
It could work, though the heat transfer might not be as good as you hope (the copper is going to present a small surface to the outside of the heat exchanger. You could de-case the exchanger, though you'll find the inner tube is cast into a block of aluminium fins, which will be even harder to get a decent copper bond to. Best bet might be to use straight 'J' tubes and wind your copper round that.) - flexible rubber hoses will deal with the vibration problem. You'll need somewhere for the water to expand to, (don't want a sealed system or something will burst!) and remember with the minimal head available in a Nova, that gravity circulation is going to be a bit feeble - so you may want to investigate some form of electric circulation.......

mattswan2512
09-03-2010, 09:38 PM
Yeah tapping into the oil just worries me somewhat Lauren! And were to tap in also. I have a friend at work who is an ex race engineer I'll speak to him about it.

How was goodwood?
I was going to go until I had somewhat of a monumental coolant leak in my normal car so I spent Sunday investigating. In the end I wacked a dog turd ie rad seal in until I replace the rad.

Spacenut
10-03-2010, 06:33 PM
I suppose the oil pressure does put a bit more emphasis on the hose connections, but you could always use Aeroquip or such like if you were worried about oil leaks in the car. You can ditch the valve idea too, if you box the heater matrix in so that it can only transfer heat into the cabin by deliberately ducting air flow through the matrix. Not so easy to stop heat bleeding through in Summer, but with adequate ventilation it should be OK. Ultimately the decision is yours!

Goodwood was quite incredible, I have to say. Obviously the cloudless sky and all those classic cars hibernating over the winter months conspired to make it one of the biggest turn-outs ever - there were cars parked on the circuit all the way from Woodcote corner to Madgewick 1, which if you know Goodwood at all is a lot of cars. The pits area was packed out, as was all the non-themed onsite parking as well. But never fear - there will be some other Nova-friendly breakfast clubs later in the year, so you can still get to one or two!

Lauren

Peter
11-03-2010, 11:17 AM
OR, (plan H). How about an oil / water heat exchanger? Pass hot oil though a copper coil immersed in a sealed tank of water (Or visa vesa) which is them passed into a matrix by a small electric pump as and when needed. It would take a while to heat the water but as both oil and water in an engine run about 80 degrees should work. A bit slow to start with but dead safe.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v219/Ukhozi/Heatexchange.jpg

Peter
11-03-2010, 11:24 AM
Yeah tapping into the oil just worries me somewhat Lauren! And were to tap in also. I have a friend at work who is an ex race engineer I'll speak to him about it.

You need to fit a new pump cover with an outlet (full flow conversion) block the internal drilling from internal pump outlet to gallary and tap end of gallary to take return as if or as well as fitting an external oil filter, (this is where the oil is at its hottest).
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v219/Ukhozi/engine/Fullflow.jpg
At the end of the day, although possibly the most difficult in welding terms and complicated, the water jacket on stainless steel J tubes is bar far the best and most efficient.

ChrisBailey
11-03-2010, 06:42 PM
with all the effort going into constructing oil to water or air to water heating systems wouldnt it just be easier to use the original heating system i.e heat exchangers.
Are you going to use your car in the winter?
I definatley wouldnt :lmfao:

mattswan2512
11-03-2010, 08:05 PM
I'm glad you enjoyed goodwood looking forward to piks Lauren!
I don't intend on using the car in the winter but, on days like the other were the car was out on a sunny day although cold, I went to my old dears and stayed a bit to long next thing windows just misted up as I went to leave.
I had to cover her and abandon her in Chichester for the night!
So a heater for times like this would be good.

My mates at work came up with a corker of an idea simple and easy instalation! A lorry cab heater (diesel) in the front with a header tank as the fuel tank to feed it. With a 12v fan built in there on eBay.
Can't see why it won't work and boy do them cab heaters get hot

Alzax3
11-03-2010, 08:19 PM
Which was basically the answer VW came up with for their campers and the 411/412 - except their unit was petrol fueled - used to live under the back seats and ignited with a spark plug. Can't remember what they're called, but I know Lauren can :notworthy:

Simpatico
11-03-2010, 08:40 PM
Eberspacher, still available (still expensive), my dad had one on the (t)rusty family 412.

Peter
12-03-2010, 01:18 PM
Eberspacher BN4 petrol heater but must be kept up to scratch or woosh, no car

check out
http://www.camperinterior.co.uk/html/vw ... ating.html (http://www.camperinterior.co.uk/html/vw_camper_heating.html)

Spacenut
12-03-2010, 06:59 PM
What they said :crylol:

vpogv
30-03-2010, 10:57 PM
Oil cooler is the best alternative to the stock heater boxes. Beyond that good luck. I have not found a single person to have a good set up with the oil cooler yet.

MicksRedNova
31-03-2010, 08:58 PM
Hi Matt - I think Mick (Micksrednova) has been working on this type of heat exchanger system for his car. There's no reason in principle why this approach shouldn't work, although whether it would work better than the stock air-to-air heating system (you have one more interface, i.e. air-water-air) is debatable. Lauren

Yes, Lauren is correct. I bought a couple of Stainless Water heat exchange 'J' tube thingies on eBay with the intention of running a water based heater system.

I have rigged it up to test using my 'suffolk colt petrol tank' as a header/expansion tank and a solar heating electric water pump to push the water round through a heater matrix from a Fiat, all joined with 10mm heater hose. It all worked fine except the stainless water jacket welding was full off pin holes :nonono: so the water squirted out as fast as it got pumped round. I have tried mig welding the joint but still can't eliminate all the holes so have basically abandoned the water jackets for an idea similar to yours.

I bought stainless pipe at Newark show and intend to fabricate a complete exhaust system. The 'hot' sections nearest the exhaust ports will be wound with 10mm copper central heating tubing (left over from fabricating a power steering cooler) and covered / held in place with asbestos bandage. These copper coils will then be linked up to the header tank, pump and matrix to create my heater. Based on my experimets with the leaky water jackets I have high hopes that it will work well.

Mick