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View Full Version : Another Avante on eBay...



djee87
12-07-2010, 10:02 AM
Here's another unfinished Mk1 in need of a good home - any of you guys interested?

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Avante-mid-engine ... 3a5cca6083 (http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Avante-mid-engined-kit-car-/250664870019?cmd=ViewItem&pt=Automobiles_UK&hash=item3a5cca6083)

Spacenut
12-07-2010, 11:32 AM
Lancia Fulvia 1300 mid-mount? I can't see the thumbnails at work - does the car use the complete engine and transmission package, or is it just the Fulvia engine bolted to a VW gearbox and rear mounted?

Could be quite interesting if it was mid-engined, but lots of unknowns regarding the state of the chassis (modified VW or tubular? VW suspension or Lancia? etc. etc.). All that and a new front screen required as well...

Lauren

Francksp
12-07-2010, 07:15 PM
Hi gang,

Please be very carefull with this one. I ran a car data check on this and got quite a shock.

The number plate attached to the rear of the car was last seen attached to the rear of a motor bike stolen in 2007 from Manchester and never seen again. I couldn't work out how a kit car built in the 1980's and 70's Lancia could end up with an "05" plate so ran a check

E-bay has been told

Shame as it would be just what I'm looking for

Regards


Paul

bobbybrown
12-07-2010, 07:23 PM
That plate certainly does check out to be from a Ducati 999s!

Listing will shortly be removed and the police have been informed.

We do not condone any kind of activity like this on Euro-Nova and any situation like this will be reported to the appropriate authorities.

Spacenut
12-07-2010, 07:42 PM
Hmm. I thought the plate looked a bit odd too. I wonder what else was stolen to make this car...

bobbybrown
12-07-2010, 07:46 PM
Exactly. You never know do you :nonono:

letterman7
12-07-2010, 08:34 PM
Since it was posted innocently enough as a find and not as a seller, perhaps we should kill and delete this thread?

bobbybrown
12-07-2010, 08:56 PM
Lets let it run for the moment, I want to see if ebay pull the auction or not :)

Maybe locking the thread isnt a bad idea though.

djee87
12-07-2010, 11:05 PM
Sorry guys, my first eBay find and it turns into a full-blown investigation! :-/ Hope the Avante goes to someone who'll actually get it up and running! Im getting there slowly with my two :-D

jimcub
12-07-2010, 11:47 PM
still on ebay and with 13 bids

JemP
13-07-2010, 07:05 AM
perhaps the guy has just put the plate on there for looks. I was fitting out mine once and decided to put a plate on the back to see how it looked and used a spare plate from my sons moped, just for looks. He's got 100% feedback (which doesnt always mean much) but he has positive feedback from Jim when he bought some stainless steel Nova kick plates. THere's probably a perfectly rational explanation.
What is more interesting is how the Avante is registered.

djee87
13-07-2010, 07:41 AM
Thats exactly what I thought when I checked out the number plate. So what is it registered as then, does anyone know yet? I've contacted the guy but had no reply so far. Was hoping to go over and take a closer look at it today as it's only a few miles from me :-D

Big Birds Car
13-07-2010, 08:31 AM
I have asked what is written on the V5c and awaiting a reply.

JemP
13-07-2010, 09:52 AM
me too :)

Big Birds Car
13-07-2010, 10:03 AM
I'm only curious as my finances at the moment dictate I can't go for it, a shame as I did want the set at one time, maybe when things pick up.

Spacenut
13-07-2010, 11:46 AM
On the listing the make and model are shown as the donor car - Lancia Fulvia. I wouldn't mind betting that that is what the logbook says too. Seems slightly far-fetched, given that only the engine and gearbox remain...

Lauren

jimcub
13-07-2010, 09:14 PM
This would not be Ian superman of steel's Avante would it

Big Birds Car
13-07-2010, 09:25 PM
Well the V5 states Lancia two seat coupe not fulvia, he says thats where all the parts come from including clocks etc. Well that puts me well off even if the funds were available.

JemP
14-07-2010, 07:46 AM
Yep, I'll be keeping a wide berth too.

JemP
14-07-2010, 08:22 PM
Interesting, its not tax exempt either, year of manufacture is 1972, but showing date of first registration 1975, and silver! now it might have been built a long time ago when the DVLA would have allowed the plate to remain on the old points ruling, when chassis didnt matter. My neighbour managed to retain the number of the Cortina donor he used for his Robin Hood as it used enough parts from the donor, and its stayed registered as a Ford after the inspection by the DVLA (or was it DVLC then?) Anyway my Spartan was built at the same time, inspected by a different person, had about the same amount of Cortina parts from the donor, and got a Qplate, which I actually quite liked :)

djee87
14-07-2010, 08:50 PM
Going over on Friday to take a closer look after work, and yes it turns out it IS Ian Superman of Steel's Avante after all... Anyone want me to ask anything whilst I'm down there?

jimcub
14-07-2010, 11:26 PM
Yes stainless cill plates please, I have his stainless hinges so I know the quality

Spacenut
15-07-2010, 11:48 AM
Well the V5 states Lancia two seat coupe not fulvia, he says thats where all the parts come from including clocks etc. Well that puts me well off even if the funds were available.

Really? The Fulvia V4 is a fantastic little engine :clapping:

Even the 1.3 was good for 80-90 bhp, and with complementary ratios in the Lancia gearbox, a modified Avante should go well...

Although I guess from the spares perspective they are getting harder to source parts for :(

Its a pity Ian has decided to sell up. I've noticed he hasn't been active on this forum for... well, years really...

Lauren

Big Birds Car
15-07-2010, 12:00 PM
Really? The Fulvia V4 is a fantastic little engine


NO No No Lauren, what I meant was that it is not correctly registered and from my past experiences with DVLA/VOSA I wouldn't be interested. The engine, box configuration is fine and would be ok even for me. :D

JemP
15-07-2010, 07:29 PM
I think it correctly registered, in as much as this was how it would have been registered 25 years ago. This is probably one of Terry Sands Avantes, which arent Beetle based, but with a chassis built to take Lancia running gear.
If its been off the road though, this could still cause problems.

Spacenut
15-07-2010, 08:05 PM
NO No No Lauren, what I meant was that it is not correctly registered and from my past experiences with DVLA/VOSA I wouldn't be interested. The engine, box configuration is fine and would be ok even for me. :D

Ah - OK, I see what you mean. I guess I would have to agree - its difficult to know how its going to turn out with the current DVLA rules...

Francksp
15-07-2010, 11:47 PM
Hi Gang

A witness statement was provided to the Police on this so can only hope they investigate.

I have had a reply via E-bay and it makes most interesting reading. The car is claimed to be registered as a Lancia by virtue of the engine and box alone. That causes a problem as its not an Avante /Lancia on the V5 so regardless of the true reg date its not properly regd so no insurance and unless its on a mail order ticket no MOT.

The address and phone number are now with the police so lets see if they can do more than just hand out speeding tickets

Regards

A truly disappointed Paul

JemP
16-07-2010, 06:41 AM
Steady on! What kind of crime has this guy meant to have commited?

Although there may be problems moving forward with the DVLA, this car could well have been inspected by the DVLC 20 years ago when enough points seemed to be all that was needed to retain a number plate, and the car was often still registered as the donor vehicle. My neighbours Robin Hood was inspected, and given the donor plate and was never changed from Ford Cortina. This was pretty much par for the course for kit cars then, and if this car hasnt been on the road for a number of years then there's no reason why this should have been updated.

I just hope the police have better things to do (like speeding tickets, if only they did do speeding tickets!!) than get involved in a DVLA issue. Unless of course the witness statement is regarding an attempt to deliberately defraud you.

Big Birds Car
16-07-2010, 07:02 AM
I think the issue here will be when it is put back on the road, if it gets spotted then it will be inspected and may have to go through IVA, a lot of kits years ago where getting built with donor vehicles and retaining the donor vehicle identification for example Jemps friend having a Robin Hood registered as a Cortina. The DVLA gave an amnesty some years ago that stated they would let cars retain their registrations of the donor vehicle but the details had to change to the new car, so even Jemps friend, if he didn't do this will be in trouble if it gets stopped for any reason.

The issue here is not the above (except for me as I wont go through the hoops again) the issue is that he has a number plate on the car that is not correct and by all accounts if one of the above posts is right, then it is the registration from a stolen bike. Having said that, even that could be explained in that it could easily have been his own bike that had been stolen and he just has a number plate left over and plonked it on the car. Probably not the cleaverest thing to do if it is, but we don't know for sure and all we can say is that if bought and stopped with a reg document stating Lancia not Avante then it can get messy.

JemP
16-07-2010, 04:47 PM
Yep, not a clever thing to do, but the plate is just plonked on there as a show plate. Nothing actually wrong with that, you see quite a few people doing that at shows, covering the reg on their Ferrari with one reading F355 CAR or something like. And yes the problems come down the line if this car ever hits the road again. My neighbour sold his Robin Hood long before DVLA rule changes and his Axxx FAB reg plated Cortina made its way to Holland.

Ben
16-07-2010, 11:34 PM
Hi all

I can say it did or belongs to Superman of stainless steel. But I won't post about the chat we had in 2005 if the police take action. :cry:



Ben

djee87
17-07-2010, 08:59 AM
Hi all.

Went to see the Avante yesterday evening, and Ian's a really nice guy to chat too for those of you who havn't met him. Unfortunately he said he knocked the stainless steel plates and stuff on the head a while back, setup costs being too high for a new batch. Sorry guys!

The Avante has been his, and off the road, for around 12 years now - and as with all cars like this his full intentions were to get it back on the road. Time and money have stopped him now, and he wants the space back in the little garage it's stored in!

It's a big project to undertake, by no mean's impossible, but there's plenty to be done on it... Engine is out and in pieces, but complete, and it needs a screen as that got smashed a while back. Needs a few bits like the fuel tank and trim. Electrics are a mess and could do with a complete re-wire, but other than that the car is complete :-) The gearbox is in but not connected, and is also out of the Fulvia... As is the whole back end. That's why it seems to have kept the Lancia N-reg all those years when it must have been driving around. The entire front subframe has been placed at the rear of the Avante, to make it a true mid-engined car.

As for the number plate off the bike - he said he found it on the side of the road a couple of doors down from him a while back, I didn't mention it was from a stolen bike (by the way, how did we find that out???)

Hope all that helps a bit!

Dave

JemP
17-07-2010, 11:24 AM
Sadly, this looks like another Avante which will never hit the road again. The only hope is if someone strips out all of the Lancia suff and puts it onto a Beetle pan.

Spacenut
17-07-2010, 03:17 PM
I think that is clearly what will happen Jem, but it needn't end like that; there is no reason why a well-engineered conversion like this couldn't pass IVA - the problem is the amount of effort required to get it through, which for a car like the Avante is disproportionate to the finished value. There certainly isn't enough points to keep the original plate, although once through IVA the DVLA can issue an age-related plate if enough major parts are used. I would say the mechanical package would qualify for a '75 registration in this case.

Fulvia engine, transmission and front suspension subframe is what powered the Stratos Zero concept, which will always get my attention :D

Lauren

Big Birds Car
17-07-2010, 03:42 PM
Lauren it is not just the amount of effort to pass IVA it is also the huge cost 495 for the test and 95 for re-tests. I'm sure the Avante could get through it but who is willing to go to all that trouble and not know for certain that it would pass.

Francksp
18-07-2010, 09:06 PM
Hi Gang,

I went to see Ian and the car today - very hard to find without sat nav!. Ian appears to be a genuine chap but that number plate is still sitting on the back of the car. The plate even said Ducatti on it so it must be from the stolen bike but Ian claims to have found it on the road. The true plate is not on the car but looking at the log book is the N plate re the donner lancia.

The log book is real a relates to the lancia, however it would be very difficult to tie the two together as I couldn't see a chassis plate on the car. That said it could form the basis for a long term project but the issue of getting it back on the road legally remains to be answered.

It looks to have been an Avante at some point in its life as the missing letters have left a fad mark and the fuel filler cut out in the "bonnet" has been connected.

This would be a long term project - hint the body frame at the back looks to have gone so putting it on a beetle chassis would look doubtful.

Regards


Paul



PS- I showed Ian the text check result that showed the stolen note and recommended he get rid of that plate fast

JemP
20-07-2010, 10:49 AM
Everything suggests steering well clear of this one, unfortunately, I'm tempted by the nova though :)

Francksp
21-07-2010, 09:15 PM
Hi Jem

You could be right- will let you know how I get on with it

Paul has an Avante for better or worse!