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supernova2
19-03-2012, 12:43 PM
Hi all you nova lovers can you give me some advice with regards heating .i have a 1600 type 1 engine i need to replace the
heat exchangers .a few beetle owners i have talked to say the heating is crap what i would like to know is will the heating
be good enouhg to keep the nova warm and the screen mist free or will i need extra heating.i would be very greatfull for any
advice you could give me as this is the first time i have owned a beetle. the nova sit,s well on a beetle chassie one fab machine.

Peter
19-03-2012, 02:00 PM
Depends on a few factors. Do you want HEAT for the winter is demisting a problem for WHEN you will be driving. Are you prepared to spend a bit to get a good result and do you have the skills to do it? Water heating is the most flexible and efficient and the best way is to convert your AIR heat exchangers for water ones, basicly you fit a Mini heater unit up front, run two pipes back to the drive shaft area (with in-line electric pump) , run the pipes down the sides is best.
IF you can buy them it will save a lot of work but it's not too difficult to make water heaters.

Minimum reqirements to make them is a MIG welder and SS wire (or TIG you lucky man) some 2mm stainless steel and someone to make it.
You need a pair of stainless steel J pipes, (all parts are stainless, it cost more but no problems).
Weld a disc across the front on the first bit of straight pipe after the bend.
Weld half a dozen 'fins' along the straight pipe of the J pipe for about 20cm make and fit a tube that long and internal diameter to be slightly larger than fins OD, the tubes will have two tubes welded into the sides front and rear opposite each other to suit the diameter of your pipework on the car and then weld a plate the same as the front one over the rear. The two units are linked at the rear with the front pipes going to the heater unit up front.
Fit a small expansion/header tank 'T'd off of the system or another small pipe off of one heater.
Circulation is by an inline electric pump hooked up to the heater controls.

One of my fab five minuet drawings

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v219/Ukhozi/HeaterunitsforVWaircooled.jpg

OR fit a water cooled engine, easiest would be a Type 4 wasserboxer.

Alzax3
19-03-2012, 09:07 PM
Beetle (and other VW aircooled engine) heating systems were never brilliant, which is why campers and 411/12s came with a miniture petrol fueled jet engine under the rear seats to give you a quick blast - literally if they went wrong!)
If you run efficient ducting down the Nova side pods and arrange adequate vent holes that direct the flow to the screen, then the heat exchangers will just about manage to warm the interior and keep the screen clear in normal conditions. Get into the car with rain dampened clothes (ie visit Stoneleigh :whistling: ) and they won't. If you've got the electrics sorted and a reliable battery, then the little ceramic element blowers do a reasonable job, but they are power hungry. The water-jacket round the exhaust system is obviously appealing, but not without its potential problems, and though good in theory, (water being a far better substance for transporting heat around than air) the fact that it hasn't been adopted by anybody should give one pause for thought....

MicksRedNova
19-03-2012, 09:24 PM
My plan is slightly less elegant than Peter's. I have already tried the Stainless J tube route and found it almost impossible (with my limited welding skills) to make the water jacket leak proof.
My new idea is to wrap copper tube round the outside of a normal J-tube and wrap asbestos bandage round it to help with heat transfer. Then use the same system as described by Peter below to pump water from a header tank (using a 12 volt pump used by Solar heating systems) to make a heating system. I have installed a heater matrix (Fiat) behind the pasenger seat and connected the ducting to 3 vents in the cockpit and a tube with holes under the windscreen.
Maybe later this year, once the engine is back running, I will get on with it and let you know.

Mick

denis
20-03-2012, 10:21 AM
hello to supernova.2....if you want the best heater of all look for.MIKUNI.MY 30.BOAT HEATER..
These heaters are very.very expensive....made . but if you do what i did...go to a transport vehicle.
breaker...and get a NIGHT HEATER. called EBERSPATCHER....
all these heaters can run on..CALOR GAS....DIESEL OIL..OR PETROL...
make sure you get all the electrics.with theunit......i had trouble changing from 24volt.to 12 volt...
All the heat you ever want and more.....open the roof..good luck.....des.

Vasco Da Gamer
20-03-2012, 12:24 PM
The ideas from Peter and Mick both sound perfectly viable, but I thought this item looked good for a quick and dirty solution:

http://www.directcarparts.co.uk/product ... eater.html (http://www.directcarparts.co.uk/product/407/hba09t/in-car-heater---12v-x-200w-ceramic-car-heater.html)

No good as a proper heating system obviously, but it might help out with de-misting - just switch it off well before stopping the car because at 200 watts it will probably overwhelm the alternator if other electrical items are also operating. There are several ceramic heaters available but I thought this one would look OK on the dashboard and it is as mentioned a little higher rated than most.

Stephen

MicksRedNova
20-03-2012, 12:36 PM
just switch it off well before stopping the car because at 200 watts it will probably overwhelm the alternator if other electrical items are also operating

At 17 Amps (200 Watts @ 12 Volts) this would consume about half the current capacity of a Dynamo based Beetle :shock: so night driving might be challenging unless you've converted to Alternator. Also, a lot of cigarette sockets are fused at 10 or 15 Amps so the fuse would blow.

I have a smaller version that I have tried once - not very successful.

Mick

Alzax3
20-03-2012, 01:06 PM
Short administrator rant:


The ideas from Peter and Mick both sound perfectly viable, but I thought this item looked good for a quick and dirty solution:

http://www.directcarparts.co.uk/product ... eater.html (http://www.directcarparts.co.uk/product/407/hba09t/in-car-heater---12v-x-200w-ceramic-car-heater.html)

No good as a proper heating system obviously, but it might help out with de-misting - just switch it off well before stopping the car because at 200 watts it will probably overwhelm the alternator if other electrical items are also operating. There are several ceramic heaters available but I thought this one would look OK on the dashboard and it is as mentioned a little higher rated than most.

Stephen

Um, viable is different from reliably doable, and ceramic heaters as a simple but power hungry option is exactly what I suggested, threads don't need to get so long if people take the time to check them before repeating what gone before........

Rant over... :whistling:

Vasco Da Gamer
20-03-2012, 01:11 PM
Yes - I remember you not being at all impressed.

I hoped the higher rating might be more successful but entirely agree that it could be a tad dodgy if you're not careful (and of course the car MUST have an alternator - I should have mentioned that).

Might just check what rating my brand new power socket is....

Steve

Peter
20-03-2012, 01:12 PM
As far as the stainless steel welding goes. if you are capable of cutting out all the bits so all it needs is welding then take it to a welder and get it made, these days a lot of welders are short on work and it shouldn't cost too much bearing in mind you will end up with a trouble free efficient system as good, if not better than a lot of cars, The idea of wrapping copper tube around a J pipe is good as long as you have suffient contact for the heat transfere. I think two meters of 12mm copper on each J pipe and insulated should do the trick.

jimcub
20-03-2012, 04:42 PM
I did toy with a 800 watt travel hair drier coupled to an inverter at one stage, but I find the standard heat exchangers on a warm/hot engine will demist even a rain soaked driver.

Peter
20-03-2012, 05:10 PM
Back in 1997 I did fit a pair of electric 12v blowers but not very good, even with a 55w alternator it was a huge drain.

Vasco Da Gamer
20-03-2012, 05:24 PM
Re Alex's rant... I had read what went before, the post was intended to cover the different designs available stylistically speaking, I had digested the inherent design flaws. Point taken anyway.

Spacenut
20-03-2012, 06:18 PM
Supernova, if my experience is anything to go by, even a watercooled engine heater will be overwhelmed by the size of the Nova windscreen!

That said, it does rather depend on what type of demisting you are trying to do. As Alex says, for most situations, the air/air heat exchangers are adequate, but if you are planning lots of stop/start driving in tropical downpours there is very little you can do. Opening the canopy to get in an out will allow moisture into the cockpit if it is raining, and before you know it - woof! all the glass has misted up.

However, if I am honest, I have only been caught out 3 times in the last 5 years where the rain was coming down so hard that I just had to stop. Quite a frightening experience when it happens though.

I know that nobody seems that keen on the concept these days, but there is also the oil-cooler heater approach, where you use the engine oil to provide heating.

I believe Pilkington can insert heating elements into the windscreen if you pay them enough!

Lauren

supernova2
12-04-2012, 07:21 AM
many thanks to all with regards heating the nova i have looked at all the idears on average it would cost about £300.00
i am going to a scrap yard today which has a campervan it,s fitted with a small eberspacher heater in working order(hot air blower 4 kw)if ok will buy it as it,s very easy to fit.

malcolm

denis
12-04-2012, 10:09 AM
to supernova..and evryone..i have drawings and wire diagram..take copy to stonleigh on sunday....see you...des