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TwoOfUs
31-08-2012, 06:12 PM
Help!

I've just been informed by Plastics 4 Performance that they don't, after all, hold a template for side glass for the Mk1/2. I'd like to replace mine but they are very fragile and will possibly disintegrate if I try and remove them.

So... does anyone have another source?
Or... does anyone have a paper template I could borrow?

Thanks in advance!

Al

Alzax3
31-08-2012, 06:31 PM
I know, because I've converted my Mk1 canopy to take proper glass, (big remodelling job, as glass is flat and won't conform to the opening even slightly, unlike perspex)that not all side openings are equal - ie don't assume that Mk1, 2 and 4 will all be the same..... I had second hand pre-cut glass from Bigbirdscar, and the first set was impossibly wrong.... I have still got my old MK1 perspex (should throw things away) so I can take templates of those if Mk1 is what you need?

TwoOfUs
31-08-2012, 07:39 PM
Hi Alzax

Thanks for the post. Mine is actually a Mk3 (I think!): is the glass going to differ? I guess that if I have a template I can get a pretty good idea of whether it's right or not. I'm loathe to try and remove without having replacements to hand!

Thanks

Al

MicksRedNova
31-08-2012, 08:44 PM
Al
I have a wooden template of the side window of a Mk2 which I have used sucessfuly to make the side windows for mine from Polycarbonate (sheets from Wickes about £15). They have been in my car since 2007, held in with bathroom sealant, and are only now beginning to show signs of scratching.
I would be happy to trace the outline onto a sheet of paper and send it to you if you PM me your address. I agree with Alex though that the non-flat frame would be a challenge to get glass windows to fit without remodelling the cut-outs like Alex or making an aluminium frame like Dave (Islandman).

Mick

Spacenut
31-08-2012, 09:32 PM
Alwyn's Mk3 Nova is based on a Mk1 car, so would need the same side windows as a Mk1.

I'm sure that Jim told me Nena's glazing was supplied by P4P (Nena is an ADD Mk1), which is why I was surprised to hear they do not have a template. Unless it was done as a one-off with paper templates which Jim supplied???

Lauren

Alzax3
01-09-2012, 06:36 AM
I have a Mk4 canopy in the hedge somewhere(!) and will check whether my old Mk1 panels fit it later today.... Since it is a reworked Mk2 with the ripples smoothed out and the screen angle changed slightly it is quite likely to be different - watch this space!

letterman7
01-09-2012, 08:03 PM
I've got a CAD drawing for the Mk1 / Sterling side glass if that helps...

Alzax3
02-09-2012, 06:00 PM
Tried the Mk1 perspex in the Mk4 canopy, pretty much 1/2inch gap along the A-pillar due to the changed angle of the screen, bit of a gap at the bottom side too......

bushboy
02-09-2012, 09:58 PM
In true kit car fashion the windows on my eureka are different side to side!!!!!!

Bushboy

CyCo
03-09-2012, 10:54 AM
In true kit car fashion the windows on my eureka are different side to side!!!!!!

Bushboy


Indeed. And I think they even vary from car to car, let alone model to model....

TwoOfUs
03-09-2012, 06:15 PM
Flap over!

Thanks very much to all members who offered to help (and those who have).

Plastics 4 Performance told me this morning that they had located the window panels after all and guess what - they are not identical in size. Must be a Nova then! No word about headlamp covers but these are less critical, of course.

Alwyn

NovaF4
03-09-2012, 07:38 PM
Just make some templates. Stick some clear plastic sheet over the aperture and with a magic marker draw along the window edge. Then cut out the plastic sheet and stick it to thick card with some masking tape. Draw round it and cut the card out. Hey presto, one template.

I've tried glass (on a Mark 2 canopy) and it stands proud near the top or bottom (it pivots). I fixed them in place successfully using Sikaflex but they did stick out a bit. The glass looked quite professional and expensive but I've since decided that perspex is better. I prefer the Le Mans race car look anyway and they use perspex windows, usually with vents integrated into them and air tubes running through. I also prefer the idea of being able to kick the side windows out in the event of an emergency if the canopy fails and my sunroof jams (or whatever), and perspex would be easier to do that than glass.

I will need to make new ones as part of my re-build but I'm keeping a look out for special scratch-proof perspex rather than just the usual cheap stuff that scratches so easily. The local perspex company on the industrial estate could do scratch proof (I forget the name of it) but it was very expensive as they could only buy it in a massive sheets.

G

Alzax3
03-09-2012, 07:40 PM
Polycarbonate? (shotgun proof) Lexan?

Big Birds Car
03-09-2012, 09:17 PM
So Shotgun proof perspex is going to be easier to break out of then than tempered glass? you might want to rethink that one.

NovaF4
05-09-2012, 03:35 PM
Haha, indeed. But I never mentioned shot gun proof glass, someone else did. Scratch proof is fine. I don't think anyone wants to shoot me. Not yet anyway.

Spacenut
05-09-2012, 05:38 PM
So Shotgun proof perspex is going to be easier to break out of then than tempered glass? you might want to rethink that one.

I don't think breaking the glass (or plastic) was the intention - the trick to getting out of a Nova with a stricken hydraulic system (other than egressing out of the sunroof of course), is to push out the side windows from inside. Obviously a glass window is more likely to break when it hits the ground.

I can see the advantages of glass (I have 4mm toughened glass in the Green Machine), but like Giles I am thinking more along the lines of plastic for my ADD canopy, probably polycarbonate.

Lauren

NovaF4
05-09-2012, 05:49 PM
I can see the advantages of glass (I have 4mm toughened glass in the Green Machine), but like Giles I am thinking more along the lines of plastic for my ADD canopy, probably polycarbonate.

That's the stuff.

Regarding kicking out the window, I'd rather kick out plastic than get my leg cut to shreds, having only been able to make a jagged hole the size of my leg!

MicksRedNova
05-09-2012, 07:50 PM
I can see the advantages of glass (I have 4mm toughened glass in the Green Machine), but like Giles I am thinking more along the lines of plastic for my ADD canopy, probably polycarbonate.

That's the stuff.

I think that's where the thread started. Sheets from Wickes for about £15 but you can't get both windows from 1 sheet, unless you make each window in two parts like mine.

Mick

Big Birds Car
05-09-2012, 08:39 PM
Well, having had to kick in a side screen (long story) and also kick out a few front screens in older cars when I was younger and more stupid, I have yet to actually cut myself doing so (got cuts hoovering the stuff up :cry: ). I think if you have a passenger then the question really is can you actually get your leg up high enough to kick a side window?

I like the racing type vents in the perspex side windows, however I will be using glass and if the roof fails climb out the removable sunroof, probably a little more dignified than a very slow Dukes of Hazzard exit.

NovaF4
05-09-2012, 10:26 PM
NovaF4 wrote:
Quote:
I can see the advantages of glass (I have 4mm toughened glass in the Green Machine), but like Giles I am thinking more along the lines of plastic for my ADD canopy, probably polycarbonate.


That's the stuff.


I think that's where the thread started. Sheets from Wickes for about £15 but you can't get both windows from 1 sheet, unless you make each window in two parts like mine.

That can't be it then. Far too cheap and you can't buy it in a DIY store. I mean the relatively expensive scratch proof perspex.

MicksRedNova
05-09-2012, 10:52 PM
NovaF4 wrote:
Quote:
I can see the advantages of glass (I have 4mm toughened glass in the Green Machine), but like Giles I am thinking more along the lines of plastic for my ADD canopy, probably polycarbonate.


That's the stuff.


I think that's where the thread started. Sheets from Wickes for about £15 but you can't get both windows from 1 sheet, unless you make each window in two parts like mine.

That can't be it then. Far too cheap and you can't buy it in a DIY store. I mean the relatively expensive scratch proof perspex.

Oops you're right. The stuff I used is Acrylic Glass which is cheaper and more scratch proof than Polycarbonate (Lexan) but shatters more easily and is not bullet proof. See this link for comparison: http://www.hydrosight.com/technology/po ... crylic.php (http://www.hydrosight.com/technology/polycarbonate_vs_acrylic.php)

I still recommend the cheap stuff. Easy to make new ones and doesn't scratch easy.

Mick

MartinB
13-04-2013, 07:03 PM
I'm pretty sure of the answer after reading through this... and sort of remember that when someone from many moons ago was trying to fit opening side windows, that they had to build up the leading front edge of the side opening in order to get glass windows to fit, (that is glass rather than perspex or whatever - as the glass has no 'give'). But as the windows in a Sterling are sold as glass, (flat glass I'm told...), with an opening kit etc, does anyone know if they would actually fit a mk2?

Alzax3
13-04-2013, 07:26 PM
As one who's done it, (to a Mk 1, but I've got a Mk 4 canopy here too. Different outline to the window, still built for perspex.)most of the problem is at the trailing edge of the window actually, but either way - Nova canopies won't take flat glass without alteration. So I can only assume that the Sterling has been modified for it already. Rick is most likely to know for sure!

MartinB
13-04-2013, 07:44 PM
Would that be Rick Milne? If so, he seems to think that the side windows on Sebring or Cimbria have always been flat glass, although he thought the later model Nova may have a different shape since the windshield had been moved upwards... David at Sterling is also thinking the side openings are the same. I must admit I have not put a straight edge against the openings, but as the car is some distance away from my home... I'll have to go over and see! I wish the weather would warm up! `¬) I have sent a link to this thread to Rick and David, maybe they will comment here if I'm lucky?

Peter
13-04-2013, 07:55 PM
Appertaining to escaping from car via side window and taking that Nova and SS side windows are much the same size; I’ve tried it and I (fat git) DON'T FIT THROUGH. So lets just hope the SSs gull wing doors don’t jam, Has been know when the cable pulling the ‘bonnet catch’ failed.

MartinB
13-04-2013, 08:35 PM
ha ha, I just hope my seats are wide enough, as I have added a bit of weight since I last sat in the Nova seats!
...and thanks Alzax3, I kind of suspected the glass would not fit! Is there any particular material that is best suited to the side windows, that is flexible enough to close properly if opening side windows are implemented - but still strong enough to take the fittings required?

NovaF4
13-04-2013, 08:50 PM
ha ha, I just hope my seats are wide enough, as I have added a bit of weight since I last sat in the Nova seats!
...and thanks Alzax3, I kind of suspected the glass would not fit! Is there any particular material that is best suited to the side windows, that is flexible enough to close properly if opening side windows are implemented - but still strong enough to take the fittings required?

Yes, the plastic we were on about earlier on in this thread.

I got glass windows to fit a long time ago but they stuck proud at two corners (still the edges were covered in sikoflex) so weren't perfect. As has been mentioned, the aperture is not level so plastic is best and it can bend to fit.

letterman7
13-04-2013, 09:07 PM
Would that be Rick Milne? If so, he seems to think that the side windows on Sebring or Cimbria have always been flat glass, although he thought the later model Nova may have a different shape since the windshield had been moved upwards... David at Sterling is also thinking the side openings are the same. I must admit I have not put a straight edge against the openings, but as the car is some distance away from my home... I'll have to go over and see! I wish the weather would warm up! `¬) I have sent a link to this thread to Rick and David, maybe they will comment here if I'm lucky?

That would be me :D . I knew there were differences with the shape due to the various canopy configurations, I didn't know that a flat piece of glass won't fit in the opening. Which surprises me, really, since a Nova was the mold for the Sterling and, as far as anyone knows, no alterations had been made to the canopy. In fact, the two known Nova's here in the States have flat glass, I'm fairly certain. Granted, we (the Sterling owners) put a sponge rubber gasket material around the opening, so any waviness in the canopy opening or gaps may be taken up by that. On my car, and, in fact, my old car, there was a slight gap at the leading edge of the window at the point, but the rubber always sealed that well anyway. Maybe that's the only issue?

Dunno, Martin. Best I can say is try to get to your car, take a piece of 1/2" plywood and a jigsaw with you and try to make a template that you can actually fit into the opening. The plywood should tell you if there is a gap anywhere.

Peter
13-04-2013, 11:08 PM
Bearing in mind in the EU all glass should be marked CE and plastic should not be used. I had to remove the 4mm poly and refit the glass.

MartinB
14-04-2013, 11:32 AM
That would be me :D . I knew there were differences with the shape due to the various canopy configurations, I didn't know that a flat piece of glass won't fit in the opening. Which surprises me, really, since a Nova was the mold for the Sterling and, as far as anyone knows, no alterations had been made to the canopy. In fact, the two known Nova's here in the States have flat glass, I'm fairly certain. Granted, we (the Sterling owners) put a sponge rubber gasket material around the opening, so any waviness in the canopy opening or gaps may be taken up by that. On my car, and, in fact, my old car, there was a slight gap at the leading edge of the window at the point, but the rubber always sealed that well anyway. Maybe that's the only issue?

Dunno, Martin. Best I can say is try to get to your car, take a piece of 1/2" plywood and a jigsaw with you and try to make a template that you can actually fit into the opening. The plywood should tell you if there is a gap anywhere.

Thanks Rick, I will have to try that... I'm also concerned over the comments about diferent sizes of openings as well. Is it possible if your side windows are easy to remove, to draw round each one and add some dimensions... and either post here or email me the drawing? That way, I can check my openings for size as well... `¬) (or even use your template drawing to cut out the ply and do a direct comparison / fit...


Bearing in mind in the EU all glass should be marked CE and plastic should not be used. I had to remove the 4mm poly and refit the glass.
...so why did you have to re-fit the glass; is this an mot issue or approval issue? - from what I am hearing some people are still running poly / acrylic? certainly what I will have to do if the glass does not sit right...

Peter
14-04-2013, 01:52 PM
Bearing in mind in the EU all glass should be marked CE and plastic should not be used. I had to remove the 4mm poly and refit the glass.
...so why did you have to re-fit the glass; is this an mot issue or approval issue? - from what I am hearing some people are still running poly / acrylic? certainly what I will have to do if the glass does not sit right...[/quote]
Current EU regs say ALL glass (inc side) should be CE marked, The ITV (MoT) guy said they couldn't pass it with plastic (polycarbonate) anyway as it couldn't be smashed to extract an unconscious person, the fact I am twice the size of the aperture seemed irrelevant. Same guy wouldn't pass wifes Corsa because the deflectors on the side windows were smoked not clear, popped them of, passed, popped back on. stupid!

Alzax3
14-04-2013, 07:00 PM
Somewhere, from a very long time ago now, (but the same galaxy luckily) I have templates for the glass.... I got mine from Bigbirdscar, and he had I think 3 different profiles - the Mk 1 (mine) being the slimmest height-wise. (The others had different radii on their 'corners' as well as being taller.) It's probably easier fitting flat glass if you don't want it to open, but if you do, some canopy chopping/build up will be required. I will have photos of that process somewhere in the files, I've a feeling the online ones disappeared with Nova-International, it was that far back...... :shock: :coat:

Spacenut
14-04-2013, 07:13 PM
I didn't know that a flat piece of glass won't fit in the opening. Which surprises me, really, since a Nova was the mold for the Sterling and, as far as anyone knows, no alterations had been made to the canopy.

When I was talking to Richard at Exeter a couple of years back, he told me that the canopy moulds had a deliberate convex bow along the windscreen pillars, so that the inner skin, once bonded in place, would pull the pillars into shape as it cured.

At least, that's how I understood what he said, Alex would probably have a better idea of how this works. If I understood correctly, it would seem that the majority of canopies did not pull the bow out sufficiently, leaving a side windown aperture that was not entirely flat. Not a problem for plastic side windows, Richard was quite adamant that flat glass would not fit, and that seems to be the case for both Giles' Mk2 and my Elam Mk1...

To be honest, just a teensie bit of curvature on the side glass would be the finishing touch for the Nova, looks-wise. Trouble is, there is very little flange depth to play with, and building out the canopy (particularly along the back edge) would also be fraught with difficulties... :(

Lauren

NovaF4
14-04-2013, 07:28 PM
A long time ago I ground down the side windows flange depth as far as they would go in order to fit glass or thicker plastic windows. I ended up building it up in places after that. It's so hard to get it the same depth all the way round. I'm yet to finish it.

islandman
15-04-2013, 12:56 AM
you could always build frames as I did to allow for flat glass to fit.......however its not a job for the faint hearted...

MartinB
15-04-2013, 07:05 AM
Thanks for all the information... it seems that every Nova is quite unique in its own way! Alex; I found a comment from you in an old thread here, but as you say, the photo's that went with it had gone... would be interested to see them if they are easy to find? Islandman; I checked out your build; very impressive frame work... although I do feel the extra 'pillar' breaks up the clean lines... I wonder if it is possible to do something similar without the window split being so obvious... still, a good solution to the curvature! `¬)

Alzax3
15-04-2013, 05:58 PM
I'll dig them out, I have a feeling they'll be lurking safely on Liz's computer along with Lord Lucan.......... :coat:

NovaF4
15-04-2013, 06:45 PM
Personally I feel that a frame around the window looks out of place and affects the clean lines no matter what colour or material used.

I also think that a simple bar running down the side window, often seen at an angle, is also detremental to the design and side view of the Nova. Sorry to all those with this type of opening windows.

I feel the best method for non opening side windows is reduce the depth of the channel that the window sits in, get it level and straight (naturally it contours), find a neat rubber trim and stick it into the channel so that a larger section of it is stuck to the channel and a smaller 90 degree section of it is running along the profile of the channel. Then paint a nice black edge along the back of the windows with special Sikaflex window paint, then use a black sikaflex sealant to bond the window to the rubber trim in the channel.

For opening windows I think the best look is for either the entire window to open or to incorporate rectangular GT40 style opening vents. Although I suspect even these, despite being transparent would affect the look of the Nova.

As I've said many times on this forum, if you have a sunroof and fresh air vents in the dash, having the side windows opening an inch is pointless, apart from making a discussion between two people, one inside the car and one outside, slightly more audible and a little more sociable.

G

Alzax3
15-04-2013, 07:27 PM
Nah, if your sunroof is open (removed) you can't hear a thing for the wind noise, if it's cracked open you tend to hear rather a lot of engine, the side windows (one whole sheet hinged on the A pillar), open about 2.5 to 3 inches make a lot of difference ventilation and screen-clearing wise, whilst as you say, not affecting conversation much at all. BUT if it's raining, even if you've added decent hollow-section seals and quite extensive rain channels, the water WILL still find its way in!

Dirk
15-04-2013, 10:47 PM
having the side windows opening an inch is pointless,
G

Not if you are a smoker :whip:

Dirk

islandman
16-04-2013, 01:30 AM
i find my opening side windows very effective at clearing the windscreen and providing ventilation, its amazing what 2 inches gap can do!

NovaF4
16-04-2013, 03:52 AM
having the side windows opening an inch is pointless,
G

Not if you are a smoker :whip:

Dirk

Ah yes good point.

jimcub
06-05-2013, 05:37 PM
When I fitted polycarbonate side windows We had to use a strange combination of wood and rope to pull the poly in, as the side screens are not very flat but have been stuck down with silkaflex for about 3 to 4 years now
They do need replacing as the originals were tinted, with the bits of sun we get I find I get a burnt arm and a hot cabin with clear so back to a light tint in the future.

Alzax3
06-05-2013, 06:44 PM
They do need replacing as the originals were tinted, with the bits of sun we get I find I get a burnt arm and a hot cabin with clear so back to a light tint in the future.

That'd probably be because the poly doesn't cut out the harmful rays like glass does..... (and the dark tint won't help much either.....)

Spacenut
06-05-2013, 08:58 PM
Hmm. That's a good point, I hadn't realised that polycarbonate does not have the same UV absorption properties as glass. Although cheapo sunglasses appear to have found a solution (allegedly). Perhaps I will stick with glass after all... :confused1: