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NovaF4
23-03-2013, 12:40 PM
Hello Nova fans. I hope you're all doing well.

You've probably guessed that not much has been going on in my garage over the winter, as usual. However, this morning, despite the snow, I decided to buy some fuel to increase what was already in the Nova's tank, fire it up and run the engine to temperature. It's been about 4 months since I did it last time. I tried about 2 months ago but it wouldn't start. I put that down to the fact that the battery probably needed a charge.

So, with the battery fully charged (using my new trickle charger gizmo that has been on for the last 3 days), fuel in, ignition on...

Unfortunately this morning's attempt to start it failed and I'm pretty fed up. The fact that I spent nearly 3k on what effectively is a brand new engine speaks for itself.

I thought I'd share what happened in case anyone here has any thoughts.

OK so lets re-cap:

- New engine
- Loads of fuel (fuel filter full and I can see fuel wooshing through it)
- Battery - fully charged (may as well call it new as it's only been used to start the thing on the odd occassion and has never gone flat)

Here is what happened which is the same as last time I tried:


On the press of the button the engine turns over seemingly fine but I notice that every time I press the throttle the turning over speed slows down. During turning over (presumably once the fuel reaches the carbs) there's the occassional sound that it has fired but it doesn't 'catch' (actually start). From experience when it fires I need to stamp my foot on the throttle to make it 'catch' but that has the adverse effect of slowing down the turning over. Another press of the button and again the turning over slows down when I press the throttle, this time almost grinding the turning over to complete halt unless I release the throttle and then it turns over OK again. All I can describe it like is like a 'compression lock'. I try again - this time it's becoming noticable that the turning over speed is slowing down with no throttle depressed, so I'm thinking uh oh, the battery is running down. Eventually I give up as the turning over speed is almost non existent.

The carbs haven't been set up perfectly ss it is always going to take a little bit of turning over and random pressing of the throttle to get it started anyway; that's what happened all the times I've started it after I had the engine done. But what's changed since then? The car hasn't been anywhere!

It's very cold today and was pretty cold last time I tried although I would hope that's no excuse. The Audi doesn't care about the cold, or if I haven't started it for 4 weeks.

What's worrying me is the slowing down of the turn over speed when I press the throttle, like the engine is getting a compression lock. I may have used an incorrect term here but that's the best way to describe what happens. It's like the whole engine struggles to turn over for a second and then suddenly the compression 'un-locks' and it turns over OK again. This slowing down of the turning over is what's stopping it starting. When I got the Nova back with the new engine this compression lock wasn't happening at all - it turned over fine every time and after frantic stabbing of the throttle every time it fired, it eventually started.

I fiddled around in the engine bay until I got fed up and locked the garage up. I did notice that one of the plug lead ends where it goes into the distributor seemed to be missing it's little (copper?) metal end bit. There was just what looked like a broken plastic lug within the rubber weather protector. Not the main center lead but one of the 4 others. I'm sure that isn't helping matters with the firing but of course has nothing to do with the turning over 'compression lock' issue. There was no sign of this broken metal end loose within the distrubutor plug hole.

I'm now wondering if Rusper Alfa used second hand plug leads. If this is the case, had I known, I would have told them to buy new ones. Same for the coil and anything else like that. Brand new engine - why spoil it with second hand electrical items? I'm sure the coil is on it's last legs - it's about 13 years old! Oh dear, not happy...

Giles :(

Big Birds Car
23-03-2013, 01:53 PM
If you are watching fuel "whooooooshing" through and when you open the throttle fully the engine slows down when cranking I would hazzard a guess at hydraulic lock by way of fuel in the bores.

Best thing to do is remove all spark plugs and see what happens when you crank the engine over, if fuel pumps out of the plug holes you have a carb issue that needs addressing straight away.

I have no idea about alfa engines so is this an air cooled thing or water, if water then again check as above, plugs out to see if water is pumped out, if so then cracked block or knackard head gasket.

Generally when cranking an engine if you put your foot flat to the floor on the accelerator it should make no difference to the cranking speed. If to start it you have to hold your foot to the floor for it to catch then I would say it is throwing fuel in by the bucket load.

Do the above test before anything else as if you continue on this vain attempt at starting and it is hydraulic locking you will stuff your engine big time (bent rods as a minimum).

As to the plug lead, it won't help the running that is true but also it wouldn't make the engine slow down.

NovaF4
23-03-2013, 05:44 PM
Thanks for the quick response. You inspired me to go out to the garage again and check things over.

All four spark plugs were sooty black on the tips that wouldn't come off with a rag and cleaning fluid. I used a wire brush to clean them up.

I cranked over the engine with the spark plugs out. To my relief there was no water or fuel coming out of the holes where the plugs sit. I poked my finger in - all pretty normal. Essentially it span over with none of the compression lock I'm describing.

Put the plugs back in, turned the engine over. This time it wanted to fire a lot more than previously. My guess is because the previous failed attempt (2 months ago) sooted the plugs up. Maybe also the fact that I have run it on the odd occassion has contributed to sooting the plugs up. Also it could be running a bit rich as the carbs were only tuned in as much to get them working.

The 'compression lock' sound is still there though. When it happens it is always on every 3rd stroke. Hard to explain. I'll let the video's do the talking. It's not as noticable when turning over from a fresh battery but as it wears down it becomes more noticable, especially Attempt 4...

1st Attempt
http://youtu.be/YwESN54jvgU

2nd Attempt
http://youtu.be/WFvqoIrjgXU

3rd Attempt
http://youtu.be/9DfDA2x4OMg

4th Attempt (on this vid you can hear the compression thing happening on every 3rd stroke.
http://youtu.be/xKcg1dPSMnE

Probably the most boring videos I've ever made!

G

bobbybrown
24-03-2013, 08:54 AM
It's certainly trying to fire, are you certain there isn't a fuel blockage?
If your concerned about compression whip the plugs out and do a compression test, this at least will tell you what's going on from that angle.

If your compression is as expected, I would be looking towards the electrical side, plugs, leads, coil etc. if compression is present and the numbers are good, add air fuel and a spark and you should be running.

Hope you get it sorted, ill be watching this thread with interest.

Big Birds Car
24-03-2013, 09:59 AM
Ok, no water or masses of fuel in the bores, sounds like it could be slightly too far advanced on the timing.

Would suggest you check the timing on the distributor against number one plug and see how much advance you have.

Before trying to fire it up again I would check the distributor cap and it's contacts to make sure it is clean and useable (you don't have to replace it if it's ok, certainly not for this exercise anyway). Replace any plug leads that are no use.

Remove the distributor cap and put a spark plug on the end of a lead and make sure that the threads of the plug are properly touching part of the engine to earth it out, now with the ignition on take the rotor arm and place it in the distributor cap so it is making contact with the central electrode, now turn it towards the electrode that the plug is attached to and you should get a healthy spark. If you do that's fine if not you may have a coil issue BUT as it does fire I doubt that.

Take off your air filter and open the throttle butterflies and see if the accelerator pumps are working, as you open the throttle you should see fuel squirt into the carbs, if so go to next bit.

Next clean your spark plugs well and put them in the kitchen oven for a few minutes to get them warm. Now put them back in the engine, put the leads on, cap back on (making sure the rotor arm has been put back!!!!). now try to start it again.

If it was me and you had fuel squirt into the carbs as described above I would pump the throttle pedal about twice and no more then release and try to start it without any more throttle, if that fails then I would hold my foot down hard on the throttle and turn the engine over and see what happens then, of course if it fires you need to release the throttle quickly as you don't want full revs on a cold engine.

In summary I would now suggest that the timing needs sorting and the carbs are not either jetted right or clean enough. good luck.

NovaF4
24-03-2013, 12:52 PM
Thanks for your help. Traditional diagnostics! I can't remember when I last ran through that process of elimination. 20 years ago I think. I'll give it a go and see what's up.

I'm not sure the spark plugs will remain warm by the time I take them out the oven and fit them though. It's freezing outside!

G

islandman
24-03-2013, 01:51 PM
Your videos and sound of the engine turning over and the symptoms that sound like "hydraulic lock" are all very familiar to me with my Alfa engine. When mine had sat for several months and sometimes a year this is exactly what use to happen to me. It took a whole for the fuel to flow into the filter then carbs then engine.

I use to turn it over for several attempts to the point it sounded like hydraulic lock, then I would leave it for 5 minutes and try again. I don't know why but it generally started after I waited for those five minutes. Another thing ti check is the chock, is in or, out or stuck?

One cause which I eventually sorted was a bad earth on the battery lead, yes it turned over but not with much gusto! Changing the earth lead seemed to make a big difference in getting it to spin that bit faster and catch sooner and fire into life!

I hope you get it sorted :crossfinger:

Peter
24-03-2013, 04:25 PM
Hydraulic lock at that speed would just go thud and stop if it would turn at all that is. your doesn't sound like it at all.
Stale fuel? petrol doesn't last forever.
If it smells a bit sweet and stinky, clean carbs, pump and fuel lines, drain fuel and fill with fresh, anything over three months old is suspect, six or more, definetly. It is amazing how many folks think they can park the car up with 10 galls in the tank and fire it up a year later on the same crud in the tank.
Sounds the same as my 1641VW did on the old petrol. Battery/starter also sounds a bit lazy, check battery, (anything over two years old???) earth and starter lead connections.
You need. Compression, sound like there is plenty.
Spark at the right time, as this doesn't hop about it should be OK.
Clean plugs for a good spark
Fuel at about 16:1 air fuel mix. as it fired and ran a few strokes, I think that is O.K.
So back to fuel. Are the plugs getting wet? after turning over a few times they should be moist with unburnt fuel, if dry. then you have a carb' jet problem, probably stale fuel gungy goo.

NovaF4
24-03-2013, 09:01 PM
I use to turn it over for several attempts to the point it sounded like hydraulic lock, then I would leave it for 5 minutes and try again. I don't know why but it generally started after I waited for those five minutes. Another thing ti check is the chock, is in or, out or stuck?

Dave, funny you should say this. Yesterday on my second attempt I left it for 5 minutes and the compression lock sound was really apparent, I tried again and it span over much better. Not perfect but better.

I haven't had a chance to check today but this week I'll check that fuel is being delivered to the carbs by taking off the filters and pressing the throttle on the engine. An easy first test.

Maybe Peter is right and the unleaded has gone bad. I had no idea this was possible? As I was only going to run it roughly every 3 months, having to drain the tank each time straight after running it would be a pain, but it seems I have no choice. At least I can then pour it into the Audi.

Certainly I'm going to replace that dud HT lead.

See if that makes any difference and then take it from there by trying Big Birds methods.

G

NovaF4
24-03-2013, 09:05 PM
Peter, thanks for your reply. When I say "Compression/Hydraulic lock" I'm only thinking of the best sounding words to describe what is happening.

Peter
24-03-2013, 10:48 PM
Kool. REAL hydraulic lock is really solid. no chance of turn over as the fluid will never compress and you are more likely to bend a rod. Only time I saw it was when a Mercedes diesel was driven into a river (no dip headlight jokes please) and the engine was at 2,500 rpm as the intake went under. WOLLOP! stopped dead and bent a rod. costa plenty.

islandman
25-03-2013, 12:21 AM
I've also never heard of fuel going bad?

I've left mine for over 1 year at a go and still managed to start it on the same tank

Peter
25-03-2013, 01:34 AM
If you have never wiffed stale fuel you haven't lived, it's not a smell you will forget. :scared: I can get a wiff of my Cosworths that has been standing a while and it is very clear I am going to need to clean it out, My mate Ron has a collection of old motorcycles given him and one Honda CX500 with the tank cap off, it STINKS all the way up the underground garage, :annoyed: must be years old Oh yeah, petrol does go off. In fact it was mentioned on Discovery channel in one of those servival doomsday programes where the guy rushes out to the garage to fill up his Jeep and finds the fuel has gone of in the can. :whistling:
Just Google or Bling "stale petrol". :crash:

CyCo
25-03-2013, 01:33 PM
Yeah, fuel goes bad. Fuel is a mixture of many different fluids & chemicals, including detergents. These have different weights & viscosities. When left to sit for a while, they tend to separate. Think like when you mix water and oil in a glass, or even a triffle. You get many different layers of fluid, when they need to be mixed together. That's one reason that fuel goes bad. Another is that water will condense inside the tank. If you're going to let the car sit for a while (I'd say anything longer than a month), make sure the tank is as full as you can get it with premium fuel. The less fuel in the tank, the greater the surface area inside the tank for moisture to collect inside the tank, which naturally contaminates the fuel. I've also read that despite your tank being metal, it's still porous. While we can't see it, it's full of holes. Small enough that fluid can't escape, but some chemical particles can. This means that over a greater passage of time, some of the chemicals in the fuel start to loose their potency, and thus make the fuel less volatile.

If you are going to let the car sit for some time, at the very least fill the tank, and add some fuel stabilizer. This will help the fuel from 'going off'. Ideally, you'd also put the car on stands so the tyres aren't directly on the ground, and put the battery on a trickle charge (one which can monitor the battery level and stop it dropping too low or even going to high in voltage), and open the doors so you don't damage the door rubbers (not much of an issue with these cars, but still should be noted), just make sure the interior light is off!.

For more info, check this out (http://www.wikihow.com/Store-a-Car). It's simply the first link I Googled up, but there are plenty more like it out there.

Or, do what I do and if I don't take it out for a while, start it up and let it run for 10 minutes or so every fortnight. I really should take it for a run tomorrow. :wink:

MicksRedNova
25-03-2013, 06:52 PM
Giles
Your engine start videos sound OK to me for a new 'tight' engine. Although you could have a high resistance earth connection or battery terminal , worth checking.
I suggest you get a can of Ether based 'quick start' from Halfords and squirt some into the inlet before turning it over. The Aussie version called 'start ya ba*tard' is my favourite name for an engine product.

Even with old petrol, once its fired it will run OK on it.

Mick

Spacenut
25-03-2013, 06:58 PM
Hi Giles - yes, I have heard that fuel can go bad too. It mainly affects modern unleaded formulations, but leaded also used to suffer from similar problems. That said, I have left fuel festering in the tank of the Green Machine for months at a time with no apparent problems, so this may not be your problem.

I can't add to any of the above good advice, other than to say, yes, my Alfa engine also suffers from uneven cranking speed after a while. I think your main problem at present is a combination of new engine (the bearings will still be "tight"), cold oil (which will be more viscous), a possible dodgy plug lead (which one?) and poor carb balance. In addition, with a mechanical fuel pump it can take up to 15 seconds of cranking just to fill the carbs, so the battery voltage could be well down before you even get any fuel into the cylinders.

Don't forget to check for a spark at the plugs when cranking - that should eliminate the coil and distributor from your enquiries!

One thing I have found is that although the usual Italian engine trick is to forget about the choke and just pump the throttle a couple of times, if you can wire the chokes on it can make a big difference on a cold engine. Once the engine has fired and run for a few seconds it should be relatively easy to re-start with the chokes off.

I hope you hear the reassuring sound of a flat-4 soon!

Lauren

bushboy
25-03-2013, 10:14 PM
Giles,
To me it sounds like it is too far advanced on the ignition timing. The cold, stale fuel, thick oil wont help either. The spark is happening too early, and as the piston is before top dead centre it it trying to push it back the other way, against the starter, thus it makes the engine slow down.

Now, the ignition should fire before TDC so you wont hve to retard the ignition too far, just enough to help the engine start, just loosen the distributor retaining bolt & tap the distributor in the direction that the the rotor arm turns, just a little, tighten the bolt & try again. Once it is running & warmed up, you can reset the ignition timing.

Good luck.

Bushboy

Peter
26-03-2013, 03:35 PM
As a quick check there is a notch on the rotor arm and another on the dizzy case where the cap sits, at about 5-o-clock, (no, you donīt have to wait untill passed tea time you can do it any time :facepalm: ) line them up and the points should just crack open.

Spacenut
28-03-2013, 07:20 PM
Another thought - I guess your ignition system is the Bosch or Marelli electronic version? So there is another possibility that the ignition amplifier might have a problem. A simple spark test will be the quickest way to determine that. No spark at the plugs could be the coil or the ignition amplifier, or the magnetic reluctor pickups in the distributor. Check that the wire from the distributor is secure and that there are no cuts or breaks between it and the amplifier module.

Good luck!

Lauren

NovaF4
28-03-2013, 07:50 PM
Thanks for all the tips. I am now armed with a very long jump lead and a spare HT lead.

Tomorrow I'm going to:

1. Check for fuel into the carbs.
2. Replace the dud HT lead with the spare one (I'm going to replace the entire new set anyway).
3. Put the jump lead from the battery earth post to the engine main earth point.

Then I'll see how it turns over and it if starts.

As for ignition timing, this is a possibility. I've heard it can go out of sync once a new engine beds in. I can check this if the above test doesn't work.

Although you're all harping on about stale fuel as if it's the new fad, I am very much doubting that is the case. I don't believe that 1/4 tank of 6 month 'old' fuel plus 1/4 tank of brand new fuel cannot start an engine.

Lauren is most likely right that it's a combination of things that have been magnified by the extremely cold weather. I'm probably flooding it too by stamping on the throttle every time it tries to fire instead of being patient and just letting it start when it wants to after initially prodding the throttle twice.

Sorry this is so boring. There's nothing worse when doing a resoration project than the feeling of going backwards instead of progressing. I appreciate the feedback and will keep you posted...

G

G

CyCo
29-03-2013, 08:09 AM
. I don't believe that 1/4 tank of 6 month 'old' fuel plus 1/4 tank of brand new fuel cannot start an engine.

G

Of course not. This a a video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NkKxZqORi4k&list=WL49B1E5DE852D6BB2) of a 'reek that had been sitting for 20 years (or there abouts), with fuel still in the tank. With a bit of work, a little bit of new fuel (no more than a liter or so), some beer and some coke-a-cola, it started. Well, kinda. lol

Good luck. :D

NovaF4
29-03-2013, 01:35 PM
OK, I have news from this morning's garage time...

1. Battery fully charged
2. Fuel being squirted from two of the needle jets in carbs when I press the throttle. Only two? Is that normal?
3. Heavy duty jump lead from earth on battery to earth point on engine (perfect earth!)
4. New HT lead to replace the broken one.

Test 1
Engine turned over exactly the same as before with the same results. Odd firing, more so at first but not catching. Still getting the 'compression lock' sound/motion on the second stroke of turning over. Kept trying but it wouldn't start. Some attempts seemed like the battery was dying as it was slow to turn over but then other attempts afterwards proved it still had loads of juice in it and the turning over was fine. I found it odd that this kept happening. When pressing down on the throttle it just made it worse - slowing down the turning over and no firing whatsoever.

Conclusions:
1. Nothing wrong with the battery. In fact it lasted a lot longer than we expected.
2. Nothing wrong with the earthing.

Test 2
As the battery was starting to show signs of loosing its charge we connected jump leads from another car to the Nova battery, therefore jumping it. This effectively gave us a constant freshly charged battery.

We also tried moving the distributor up to 4mm in either direction to change the timing, whilst turning the engine over. This didn't make much difference at all.

We then turned it over whilst covering up the left bank of carb inlets with our hands to act as a choke. No difference.

We then covered up the right bank of carb inlets with our hands and this made a big difference - the 'compression lock' sound happened consistently all the time. Odd?

We then repeatedly squirted some easy start into the carbs. This made it fire many times and we knew that with the jump leads on it was only a matter of time before it started. Eventually it started and ran perfectly on all four cylinders.

After it ran to temperature and the fans had kicked in we turned it off and checked the HT leads with a multi meter set to 20k Ohms. Interestingly the brand new ht lead was 1.0 with the reading not fluctuating, and the other three old leads were between 5.6 - 6.8 with the reading fluctuating quite a lot.

Conclusions:
1. This starting problem is nothing to do with the battery.
2. The earthing is not the issue (as we removed the jump lead from the engine main earth point in order to jump the battery for the second successful attempt). However I will attach a standard braided earth strap as the Beetle does between gearbox and chassis.
3. All 4 cylinders are fine and the engine running is perfect.
4. The HT leads definately need replacing.
5. The petrol is fine ;)
6. Don't know about the coil.

I have a gut feeling that something is up with the carb inlet for number 1 cylinder, which is the first to fire.

I'll buy some HT leads (and get the earth strap fitted) and try again, therefore taking the HT leads out of the equation.

Giles.

MicksRedNova
29-03-2013, 01:43 PM
Giles

Well done it getting it fired :clapping:

You may have a blocked jet (jets) on one side. Now that you can get the engine started you could try putting a few revs on and stuffing a large rag (too large to get sucked in) over the carb(s), then taking it off before the engine chokes. This will suck any residual cr*p out of the jets by vacuum. It may work and saves stripping and cleaning the carbs.

You could also have an air leak around the manifold. Do you have access to a vacuum gauge to check it?

Not all HT leads are the same. Some include built in suppression and some use plain copper and some use carbon. The plain copper would show a very low (almost zero ohms) resistance, but the other types may have a few ohms or even a few kohm resistance. A matching set of whichever type you want is the best way to go.


Mick

NovaF4
29-03-2013, 02:08 PM
Thanks Mick. Great advice.

I'll try what you said about the natural vaccum dislodging a foreign object but if there is something stuck in the fuel pipe system is it OK that it disappears into the carb?

I think as the engine is new, as well as a set of new HT leads I'm also going to buy a new coil. The one in there is about 20 years old! A new one surely can only improve the spark, right?

I can't beleive I'm even discussing a topic about the engine not firing! I would rather hope that I'd be telling you all about the new rear panel or the roof system or something. In other words, moving ahead not backwards!

G

MicksRedNova
29-03-2013, 04:40 PM
Giles

The vacuum only sucks through the jets from the float bowl, and will only suck through stuff the will fit through the jet hole. So its unlikely to make it worse or suck stuff through the fuel pipe.

Mick

Spacenut
29-03-2013, 06:50 PM
I think as the engine is new, as well as a set of new HT leads I'm also going to buy a new coil. The one in there is about 20 years old! A new one surely can only improve the spark, right?

Actually, no - a coil is a coil is a coil (give or take a few ohms), so won't improve the spark, unless the old coil is breaking down internally. This did happen to me once with the Baccaruda - the engine would run absolutely fine, but every now and again would just stop dead, due to a build up of carbon arc deposits in the insulating oil. Amazingly I managed to find a stand at Beaulieu selling nothing but Chrysler-branded ignition coils, but unless you are seeing the same symptoms (which you are clearly not) and are not seeing any weeping of insulating oil from the top of the coil (which can reduce the internal insulation between the primary and secondary windings), then I would say there is probably nothing wrong with it.

I used to use my 1978 Alfasud Ti coil on the Banana, but I thought "this coil is over 20 years old, I should replace it". The next week I was driving into work with my replacement coil (a brand new Intermotor) when all the warning lights came up on the dash and the engine stopped! I managed to coast the car up the slip road at Horndean and did some quick diagnostics - the coil had failed!

I put the old Alfa coil back on the car, and I am pleased to report that after 36 years it still seems to be working (I saw some pictures of the old Snoot at Gaydon last year, and confirmed the coil was the same one).

By all means replace the coil if you are unsure of its condition, but don't expect to get a stronger spark as a result.

Lauren

PS - glad to hear the engine is running OK. I think Mick could be right about crud in the carb jets, it has happened to me on countless occasions (dried up fuel deposits are a common cause). But the lack of suck on one cylinder bank sounds a little bit odd. Perhaps it needs an "Italian tune-up", i.e. a good thrash down the motorway at high rpm to clear its throat. Alfas seem to respond well to this treatment!

NovaF4
29-03-2013, 07:32 PM
Perhaps it needs an "Italian tune-up", i.e. a good thrash down the motorway at high rpm to clear its throat. Alfas seem to respond well to this treatment!

I like the sounds of that.

I'll ditch the new coil idea!

G

Alzax3
29-03-2013, 07:47 PM
I did have a coil which failed by way of having too low a resistance - this stopped me getting to Stones one year as the heel on the points melted every 1/4 mile or so (even if they would have had enough material to allow it - having to reset them 600 times on a trip would have been excessive........) getting a sound one completely cured that problem, but the difference in a reliable runner and a comlplete pain in the butt was only a couple of ohms.... :thumbdown:

Peter
29-03-2013, 08:02 PM
Once in a while I warm up the wife's Corsa sport and then bounce the tacho off the rev limiter (about 7,200) and clear all the crap out, work wonders.
Back in the day, we had a customer with a Honda CD175 who just pottered along at 25mph in top for 15 minuets each way every day and regular as clockwork he came in complaining about it getting sluggish, so we popped out the baffles from the silencer and ramped it down the seven sisters road flat out in 2nd gear for five minuets with smoke, crud, oil ,etc flying out the exhausts, popped the now cleaned baffles back in and that'll be twenty quid, thanks.

Anyway, well done getting it running, have you got a vac gauge to tune the four cards in? (I know you only see one each side on an Alpha (DHLA 40s on my VW) but they are two carbs in one just sharing a common float chamber so you can get very differnt results with a tweek or two.
TIP: I bought some extended air screws from alpha 1750 on Ebay, sooo much easier.
check them out here.
http://tinyurl.com/cxeoz4f

If you havn't got the DellOrto book, and why not? I can glean any info you need from mine.

NovaF4
29-03-2013, 09:37 PM
Peter, that's 'Alfa' to you.

I'll always leave tuning the twin dellortos to the experts.

Trying to find a set of Bosch HT leads for the engine is proving to be near impossible online. Where the **** can I buy them from?

G

Peter
01-04-2013, 07:57 PM
Just google, "bosch" ignition leads alfa1750, and there are loads

NovaF4
01-04-2013, 10:35 PM
I've found some extra good HT leads by Magnecor.

NovaF4
04-04-2013, 06:11 PM
Here's a photo of the broken ignition lead I spotted...


http://www.thegoodwebcompany.com/sfy36k/engine/IMG_3542.jpg

and here are two videos I took of running the new Alfa Romeo engine and recording the oil pressure. (Nice revving if that encourages anyone to look!)


starting to warm up...
http://youtu.be/XaRFsfOxM5Q

warmed up...
http://youtu.be/yZcJC4SoBBY


Here's a photo of the oil pressure once the engine had reached temperature. Hope it's OK!

http://www.thegoodwebcompany.com/sfy36k/engine/IMG_3546.jpg

... and finally here is a photo of all 4 spark plugs. Look at the state of them! The history of them is as follows:

- brand new when engine was built
- never taken out (cleaned etc) since starting it successfully 4 times over the last 16 months (only ran to temperature without Nova being driven) and not being able to start it the last two times including the recent time.
- taken out to take this photo and cleaned up with a wire brush.

http://www.thegoodwebcompany.com/sfy36k/engine/IMG_3533.jpg

... this could have had something to do with the engine not starting!

Spacenut
04-04-2013, 09:23 PM
I wouldn't be surprised, but that ignition lead wouldn't have helped!

Italian tune-up will definitely help clear sooty plugs :D

Anything over 15 psi at hot idle is fine for the Alfa boxer (mine reads ~19 psi at hot, and is still relatively fresh - 23k miles from new)

Coolant temperature is also typical - these engines normally run cool, something to do with the prevailing climate in Southern Italy :wink:

Lauren

NovaF4
04-04-2013, 11:25 PM
I wouldn't mind being in that southern Italian climate right now. It was snowing today in Guildford!

Thanks Lauren, all rather reassuring.

bushboy
04-04-2013, 11:35 PM
I wouldn't mind being in that southern Italian climate right now. It was snowing today in Guildford!

Thanks Lauren, all rather reassuring.


And in Grays Essex :confused1: :confused1: :confused1:

bushboy

Peter
05-04-2013, 11:34 AM
Glad to see you have sorted out that problem, on to the next?
We have 320 days of sun here but the rest grey, wet, thunder, floods, is all happening this month, yuk!

NovaF4
05-04-2013, 05:22 PM
I haven't sorted it yet, just found a few possible culprits.

Peter
06-04-2013, 08:45 AM
It is amaaazzzing just how complicated a four stroke engine has be made since the basic; suck, squeeze, bang & blow days.

KEITHCANFIXIT
06-04-2013, 03:30 PM
The NGk b7es is considered a better plug in your set up, the bp7es your using has the electrode sitting lower and can contribute to sooty plugs, worth considering Giles, I would have said your timing is slightly out as well.

Keith

NovaF4
06-04-2013, 04:35 PM
Hi Keith. That's an interesting point you have raised which I have duly researched during my Nova restoration coffee break. The best source I read from is here:

http://www.alfabb.com/bb/forums/alfetta-gtv6-1972-1986/159769-what-spark-plug-alfetta-engine-bp7es.html

The difference between the HGK B7ES and the HGK BP7ES spark plug is that the latter has a projected centre electrode insulator (P). This potentially may lead to mechanical damage caused by interference.

To be honest with you I don't think I'm going to change my 'P' versions just yet. After all, Dave who built my engine has been building Alfa boxer engines for over 25 years, including race engines and I would like to think that he knows what he's doing. He's also skimmed the heads and done plenty of other things to my engine so any number of these things could be the reason he went for the 'P' versions. He bought them brand new too so he must have considered it rather than just sticking in some old ones from another engine or re-using my old ones.

Certainly I'll keep this knowledge in mind though.

Giles

Spacenut
06-04-2013, 06:12 PM
Just having an engine idling in the drive isn't a fair test for the plugs anyway - you need a good, hard run at motorway speeds of at least 20 miles before you can assess the condition of the plugs by their colour. And, at the end of the day, it's a carburettor engine we are talking about here, so timing and fueling are compromised at the bottom of the speed/load curve.

Just keep cleaning the plugs every few start-ups until you are ready to take to the road!

Lauren

NovaF4
04-05-2013, 01:25 PM
Just a quicky to say thanks to everyone who contributed to this thread to help me get to the bottom of the turning over and starting problem. I'm pleased to say (as updated on my rebuild thread) that the problem is completely solved. The turning over problem was due to the starter motor of all thing. The purchase of new HT leads has made it fire the second the engine turns over.

I also did not think to check the new spark plugs after each short engine run in the garage - because the engine is running a little rich they were getting fouled up which made starting it the next time almost impossible to get a spark out of them, resulting in a battery trying it's best to no avail.

Now it's extremely brilliant at starting. This morning it fired so quickly (and ran) and the engine had hardly turned!

G