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Thread: Jon's Nova

  1. #11
    Senior Member LotusNova's Avatar
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    Mi amas mian Nova

  2. #12
    ***Euro-Nova Supporter*** Spacenut's Avatar
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    Hi Jon - as far as handling is concerned I don't think you are going to have any problems with your chosen wheel and tyre combination, although as others have implied, 15" rims are a trife passe these days

    I'm afraid I understand the problems you are wrestling with all too well, but unfortunately the response from other forum members is a good indication of how the car will be viewed by the public. The wheels LOOK too small, not because they are too small, but because of how they sit relative to the surrounding bodywork. I suspect this is due to the chassis being originally designed for a 13" wheel and 185/70 section tyres (if I remember my Lotus Europa specifications correctly). This means that with 15" wheels and tyres you have a very comfortable ground clearance under the chassis, but in order to keep the looks you need to drop the bodytub further down onto the chassis.

    The comments that have been made so far suggest the way a potential purchaser would want to go; they will get their 17" rims and (hopefully) stick with profiles no lower than 45%, but then they will find that in order to fit them they will have to increase the ride height, drastically altering the suspension geometry and all your carefully calculated roll centres etc.

    Instead of looking like a hot ride, their car now looks even more strange, with the bodywork teetering on top of their big wheels. And of course the handling goes to pot as well

    I think you need to drop the body tub further down onto the chassis, if possible. Your combination of conservative wheel size (15") and radical tyre profile (45%) gives an overall diameter of 22.62", whereas the original factory Nova wheel, with a 14" rim and 205/70 tyre gives you a walloping 25.30" diameter.

    Sorry about the Imperial measures, I'm old-fashioned that way

    By comparison, Green Machine uses 185/65 tyres on 15" rims up front, so my rolling diameter is 24.47", not far off the factory diameter.

    BBC is right, I think you need to consider taller profile tyres if you wish to retain 15" wheels, but this needn't be too great a detriment to the handling; remember the relatively light weight of the car will translate into less flexure of the sidewalls. If you went for 60% profile on the front, you could get your wheel/tyre diameter up to 25.15", gaining 1.25" ride height which you could translate into a 1.25" body drop on the chassis.

    The only alternative to this type of experimentation (and compromise of course, but I don't think you will be sacrificing much) is to alter the suspension pick-up points on your chassis, which I wouldn't advise, even if you do have an "infinite chassis adjustment tool"

    I hope this isn't too unsavoury a prospect, but it allows you to keep your nice shiny Image wheels (££££££'s) although the SP2000's must have cost a pretty penny too. Like everyone else, I like the rendering (although it's too "modern" a look for my taste) but somehow the looks don't quite translate into the mock-up. That's my take on it anyway.

    My only other comment (on a purely aesthetic point) is that the original Nova front overhang is a little too long on your mock-up which unbalances the car a bit. A shorter nose (possibly slightly more blunt, a la Lancia Stratos) would help to redress the balance. Otherwise, canopy aside, the car is stylistically up there with the current crop of specialist fare (I'm thinking of the Noble M15 and Ascari in particular, both excellent cars in their own right).

    My suspension geometry was designed originally for a Lotus 23 replica, so like you I had to go from 13" "wobbly web" wheels and skinny tyres to something more appropriate for a Nova. My decision to use Weller Racing steel wheels and remould tyres was driven by the experimental nature of the project. I still have a hankering for Compomotive TH split-rims, but at £236 each (plus VAT) I've got other fish to fry...

    Placing the suspension pick-up points myself alleviated some of the problems I encountered, but even so I am running the absolute minimum ground clearance I can get away with in order to maintain optimum suspension geometry. People just have NO IDEA how difficult this lark is!!!

    That's a cue for Sybil Fawlty to say "Oooh, I KNOW"

    Good luck with your project, it certainly is a daring re-interpretation of the Nova theme.

    Lauren
    only Pythagoras can save me now!

  3. #13
    Bloody Nora Jon, that's an awful lot of cash on the corners. I understand now the reasons for not wanting to change, I've gone the other way and am doing most of the works before settling on the wheels/tyre combo again (thought I had decided but now changed my mind again). Wouldn't go bigger than a 70 profile anyway.

  4. #14
    Senior Member LotusNova's Avatar
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  5. #15
    ***Euro-Nova Supporter*** Spacenut's Avatar
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    On the contrary BBC, it's not at all uncommon these days. The Wolfie replicas are billet aluminium and command staggering premiums (I think Image wheels are overpriced myself, but what price style?), and as for performance tyres...

    The No 1 hyperformance tyre available in the early 70's was the Michelin XWX. In fact, Lamborghini had to put out the Countach on 70 profile XWX's after Pirelli decided not to pursue their 60 profile prototype-P7 until later in the decade.

    You can still get the XWX from Michelin, and these days they cost £200 each, and that's just for 205 section tyres!!!

    Benchmark performance tyres (Avon ZZR, Dunlop SP, Bridgestone S-02, Michelin Pilot Sport etc.) all cost a ruddy fortune.

    Fortunately I found Marangoni, but even they have their limits (at least the medium performance Vanto series), which I have recently found

    Just as well I didn't invest in the Compomotives, at least one of them would have had a dinked rim...

    Lauren
    only Pythagoras can save me now!

  6. #16
    ***Euro-Nova Supporter*** Spacenut's Avatar
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    Hi Jon - seriously, it's not that bad. Taking on board any of my comments would just be the icing on the cake. You've taken on an enormous challenge, to not only re-design the car to fit a mid-engine frame, but re-style the outside as well, no mean feat!

    I'm sure you could sell the tyres on for a good price and invest in a set of budget radials to retune the body/chassis relationship, or have you progressed too far to consider this option? It's just that where the wheel and tyre ends up in relation to the body will determine where your wheelarch radii go, and from that point on you are stuck with it

    Whatever you decide to do, you'll be running rings round far more expensive machinery, and for many people that is all they desire in a performance car.

    Yes, I am also hearing great things about the Murtaya, but I guess a monocoque 2-seater with a Scooby 4WD transplant is unlikely to do wrong. I absolutely agree with the monocoque chassis approach. But after the heated debate on other forums you knew that anyway

    But I also understand that Adrenaline Motorsport designed the Toniq thing and a quick read of the (always biased) kit car reports confirms my suspicions that Adrenaline are perhaps not as up to speed on subtleties such as scrub radius and KPI. I think their success with the Murtaya is therefore more down to the donor car's well-sorted suspension and steering (used as-is as far as I can tell) and 4WD.

    Lauren
    only Pythagoras can save me now!

  7. #17
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    Lauren,

    Just had a look at the Murtaya as I had never heard of it. Don't like it to be honest. From the side it looks like the backs been cut short. From the front it looks like a copy of a Cobra and from the bak a little RX8 ish. it just doesn't flow for me.

    I am sure it goes like a cut snake though

    Kym

  8. #18
    Senior Member LotusNova's Avatar
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  9. #19
    One mean machine in the making
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  10. #20
    ***Euro-Nova Supporter*** Spacenut's Avatar
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    Ohhhhh yes!

    only Pythagoras can save me now!

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