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Thread: [IRS GEARBOX] Clutch Release Bearing & Guide Sleeve - HELP!

  1. #11
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    Re: [IRS GEARBOX] Clutch Release Bearing & Guide Sleeve - HELP!

    I've just seen this which is VERY interesting...

    http://www.volkszone.com/VZi/showthread ... se+bearing

    It definately looks like I have the EARLY forks. This would mean that I would need the early clutch release bearing and NO GUIDE SLEEVE.

    Anyone disagree?

    G

  2. #12
    ***Euro-Nova Supporter*** Spacenut's Avatar
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    Re: [IRS GEARBOX] Clutch Release Bearing & Guide Sleeve - HELP!

    Hi Giles - I agree. If you look at your release forks, the "hooks" face outwards, not inwards. So looking at your drawings, it HAS to be the UPPER one, which has the hooks in the same orientation. Forget about the ring on the VW clutch plate, which you don't use.

    So you need the release bearing with the retaining clips, and NO guide sleeve.

    The spacer sits over the input shaft (which has been modified so that the splines are Alfa) and bears on the VW release bearing at one end, and the spaced off Alfa clutch plate at the other end. The length needs to be machined accurately otherwise if it is too long there will be a preload on the clutch and it will slip too easily. Hopefully if it is too short the slack can be taken up with the clutch cable adjustment, although it needs to be in approximately the right place.

    The sleeve needs to be a good sliding fit on the input shaft - when the clutch pedal is depressed, the input shaft will be stationary and the flywheel, clutch plate and sleeve will be rotating around it.

    I seem to recall your old spacer sleeve may have had a phosphor-bronze sleeve internally to allow this movement.

    Good luck having the new sleeve made up. Remember - release bearing with no guide sleeve. Pre-71, as you have correctly surmised.

    Lauren
    only Pythagoras can save me now!

  3. #13

    Re: [IRS GEARBOX] Clutch Release Bearing & Guide Sleeve - HELP!

    You can use either clutch system though. The forks are interchangeable, I had to swap my fork from the newer type back to the older type. Yours has the three holes in the gearbox for the sleeve to bolt to. Not sure why you want to put the old type on unless its more convenient? Are you sure your space does not sit inside or around the sleeve?
    Sorry if this is confusing things.
    But the picture with the space and release bearing has the later type system because you can see it has ears with clips on them.

  4. #14
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    Re: [IRS GEARBOX] Clutch Release Bearing & Guide Sleeve - HELP!

    OK, thanks to all your help I can draw a conclusion, which Lauren has summed up. I have the old forks so will need the old clutch release bearing and no need for a guide sleeve.

    Chris thanks for your help but considering the outcome it is more convenient to put on the old type because that saves me having to remove the existing steel forks, purchase the new type forks and then fit them, and then buy and fit a guide sleeve! I don't see the point in doing all that.

    Hopefully GB Engineering will find the old plans and get one made for me that is the same as my old one.

    Cheers all and thanks Islandman for your time with pre-private messages about this topic.

    G

  5. #15
    Senior Member bushboy's Avatar
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    Re: [IRS GEARBOX] Clutch Release Bearing & Guide Sleeve - HELP!

    Giles,
    This is the bearing I have.






    I got it from Big Boyz Toyz many moons ago. No use to me so if you want it it is yours.

    Bushboy
    "Always do what you are afraid to do"
    "I can accept failure, but I can't accept not trying"

  6. #16
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    Re: [IRS GEARBOX] Clutch Release Bearing & Guide Sleeve - HELP!

    Hey thanks Bushboy. I've sent you a private message.

  7. #17
    Senior Member MicksRedNova's Avatar
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    Re: [IRS GEARBOX] Clutch Release Bearing & Guide Sleeve - HELP!

    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisBailey
    You can use either clutch system though. The forks are interchangeable,
    I agree with Chris. When my clutch failed after MicksRedNova first even run to Detling I went to GSF with the old one and they said the newer 'diaphragm' clutch design is a direct replacement for the older 'three fingers' type, providing you use the correct thrust bearing. This proved to be correct and the new style went right in and works well.

    I can't help with the sleeve thing though.

    Mick
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    MicksRedNova2 may take as long as the original!!

  8. #18
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    Re: [IRS GEARBOX] Clutch Release Bearing & Guide Sleeve - HELP!

    Quote Originally Posted by MicksRedNova
    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisBailey
    You can use either clutch system though. The forks are interchangeable,
    I agree with Chris. When my clutch failed after MicksRedNova first even run to Detling I went to GSF with the old one and they said the newer 'diaphragm' clutch design is a direct replacement for the older 'three fingers' type, providing you use the correct thrust bearing. This proved to be correct and the new style went right in and works well.

    I can't help with the sleeve thing though.

    Mick

    Hi Mick

    So you're saying that your clutch failed and you bought a new different style one (diaphram) and managed to directly replace your old thrust release bearing for a newer style. Is that right? And it fitted on your old forks which are definately the same as mine? Is that right?

    That's all good but I'm not replacing the Alfa clutch, which incidentally looks like a load of plates (possibly what you are referring to as fingers), so how does that change things?

    It's really all down to the FORKS. Are you saying that your FORKS were not changed and the newer style thrust release bearing fitted? But what about the diagrams that specifically display two forks for two different release bearings?

    Also what's the advantage of using the newer style thurst release bearing over the older style?

    Regarding the guide sleeve, from what I have learned this would be necessary with the new style release bearing.

    G

  9. #19

    Re: [IRS GEARBOX] Clutch Release Bearing & Guide Sleeve - HELP!

    the advantage I see in using the newer type is that its designed to fit a clutch plate without that metal ring, this would suit your alfa setup.
    The old style uses a ring on the clutch plate probably to reduce the amount of wear on the thrust bearing from the sharp teeth of the clutch plate.
    Personally I think you could use either, but they do have different spacing for the two different plates.

  10. #20
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    Re: [IRS GEARBOX] Clutch Release Bearing & Guide Sleeve - HELP!

    Hi Chris. I'm getting conflicting reports about the forks - You are saying that the forks are interchangeable. Are you sure? The Machine 7 website and the drawings suggest otherwise.

    The "spacing" wouldn't be an issue as GB Enginnering, who will be making me the spacer, have asked if there is a guide sleeve or not, presumably as they have two sizes of spacer to choose from.

    Can you elaborate on why it would be an advantage using the newer type relese bearing? You are right that it is designed to fit a clutch plate without that metal ring, and yes my Alfa clutch indeed doesn't have the metal ring, BUT there will be a spacer in between with two round bearing surfaces on them at each end. Surely that make this advantage irrelevant?

    Cheers,
    G

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