Page 1 of 6 123 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 59

Thread: Pumps and Electrics

  1. #1
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Location
    Waterlooville Hampshire
    Posts
    201

    Pumps and Electrics

    Some help please on canopy pumps and electrics.

    I have here a pump with a green painted motor on top of a green/transparent plastic reservoir on top of an alloy pump body with two hydraulic ports. The motor has two wires one green the other red/green. The motor is marked Siba Electric Camberley. PM300 DC Motor. Lucas Marine.

    There are two pairs of green wires coming from the top of the reservoir. I assume these are for control valves. They both sound as if they are working when power is applied.


    • Is this likely to be the pump referred to as the Smithsí pump?
    • Which of the motor wires should be positive? I assume from the existing wiring that the pump runs in just one direction and flow is controlled by the valves.


    The existing wiring has a starter style solenoid supplying the whole arrangement so Iím assuming its signal wire is what triggered operation. Next there is a latching relay which connects to the valves. Operation of the solenoid switches on the pump and sets one of the valves. The next operation will run the pump but set the other valve.


    • So the pump runs but the rams do not move. Iíve cracked the pipe fittings thinking this would bleed the system but nothing.
    • I have tried running the pump in both directions but no difference.
    • Logic says both valves will be closed when the system is off. What Iím not sure of is which valve opens when the ram is moving?



    All this may be academic as the owner wants a quieter pump.



    • So which is the best pump to get?
      Iím a little concerned that a pump for a convertible roof may be a bit slow as the Nova rams are considerably bigger than those on a soft-top. Iíve also heard that they donít stay up for any length of time. I fitted a replacement pump on a BMW which had no valves and worked just by reversing the pump however some of the examples I have been looking at on ebay for other makes appear to have valves so may be the better choice.



    Bit long winded but I hope someone can help.
    Many thanks
    Steve

  2. #2
    If the pump you described looks like this then its the Smiths Minipack (noisy) pump. This is my old one :



    One alternative a few have used including me is the quiet reversible pump from Hydra Products ( http://www.hydraproducts.co.uk/Hydra...icro-pack.aspx) as seen below



    I'm sure there is a wiring diagram for it somewhere on the site as I think I've seen it before, I will see if I have it somewhere when I get time. From memory the circuit has to energise both the motor and the direction valve at the same time. The smiths pumps were actually very good, they had good pressure and excellent holding capabilities due to their separate valves unlike many of the alternatives which overtime loose pressure and let the roof slowly drop. However they are noisy and do spoil the illusion of sophisticated super car looks.

  3. #3
    Here you go, the smiths manual












  4. #4
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Location
    Waterlooville Hampshire
    Posts
    201
    Hi
    Thanks for the prompt reply.
    Yes that is the pump I have here so will be replaced.

    The pump you have used looks to answer the issues i mentioned ref not holding pressure.

    Do you have a part number or can you remember which power rating it was as they do a range of sizes?

    In your picture I can only see two pipes. I assume there is a tee piece for each pipe somewhere out of sight?
    Have you included a pressure release valve?

    Thanks again
    Steve

  5. #5
    Euro-Nova Founder bobbybrown's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Tamworth, Staffordshire, UK
    Posts
    4,698
    David, could you email that over to me to be included in the downloads section when I get around to finishing it?
    Euro-Nova Big Cheese!
    *Donate to Euro-Nova today!*

  6. #6
    Senior Member MicksRedNova's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Winscombe, North Somerset, England
    Posts
    2,257
    Excellent description of your pump and its problem. As Dave (Islandman) says the Hydro pump is an good replacement for the old Smiths one. However, I have been using a Cabriolet pump for the past 5 years and other than a 'slow droop' of the roof that you mention (mostly due to my worn ram seals) I have found it as fast as the old Smiths pump but much quieter and cheaper than the Hydro. The roof droop is only a problem if you want it to stay open for a long time (eg at shows or in the garage), I use a couple of copper tubes that slip over the rams to stop them closing.

    Best of luck with whichever method you use. Don't forget the wiring will need modification if you move away rom the Smiths but there are example diagrams on this site to help you.

    Mick
    Club Nova Member (F-036)

    MicksRedNova2 may take as long as the original!!

  7. #7
    Those mini pumps look like a good idea, no doubt as with so many 'perfect solutions' the cost will kick it into touch as I need two small units, one for each door, I have dropped an email to them to see what the application and price will be.
    Second option and also not cheap, is the design I did for TEAC with two 12v actuators in the roof of each door with a double jointed mounting that drops down to provide leverage angles but that comes out at about £300. and a lot of modifications to the door roof with metal load bearing inserts.

    The opinions expressed in my posts may not be made in a sound mind and should be taken in the spirit intended, Jack Daniels is fine.
    Some people see things as they are and ask why? I dream things that never were and ask, why not?Ē JFK

    http://ukhozi.page.tl

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by bobbybrown View Post
    David, could you email that over to me to be included in the downloads section when I get around to finishing it?
    Dan, actually I only have the jpeg images that I posted from my Photobucket account. Just click on the photo in the post and it will take you to the album where you can download them directly. If for any reason that doesn't work let me have your email address and I will send them over

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by steve_d View Post
    Hi

    Do you have a part number or can you remember which power rating it was as they do a range of sizes?

    In your picture I can only see two pipes. I assume there is a tee piece for each pipe somewhere out of sight?
    Have you included a pressure release valve?

    Thanks again
    Steve
    Steve,

    Yes the T-Piece that goes off to the respective right an left rams is behind the bulkhead, just figured its neater that way.

    It's not a pressure limiter, but a "speed control valve" RS stock No 828-044. Fully open one way (up) adjustable fluid control (down) installed in the "return" side, bottom of rams.

    It's specifically there to stop the "water hammer" effect. Definitely not cool when your closing the canopy with spectators around.
    Water hammer occurs when the weight of the roof comes down and tries to overdrive the rotary pump thus closing a non return valve in the pump when the roof stops then it releases again at ever increasing speeds (sort of feedback in audio terms)


    The pump is a Hydra-Products HPR reversible power pack www.hydraproducts.co.uk
    To save you working it out the spec. is 15 04 PRNS H B05
    0.45cc/rev. We are not shifting great amounts of fluid so this seems to be ideal. I can't remember the price but it wasn't cheap, but then its a quality piece of kit that will outlast the car I'm sure.

    Hope this helps

    David

  10. #10
    Its a pity you didn't post last week as I do have two working spare Smiths Mini Pack pumps (one with new titanium relief valves a friend made for me) and what I think is a cadillac pump and rams. All of which I would be prepared to sell, but now I'm 7000 miles away from where they are stored for a few months its not much help to you now

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •