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Thread: Help Needed! Smiths Roof Pump Wiring

  1. #51
    ***Euro-Nova Supporter*** Spacenut's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dmcdec View Post
    Hi All,
    Back to this again after a while, got all working fine started working on other odd jobs before finally putting the roof on this week.
    Got back to the pump and its making a "farty" noise , sounds like its trying to grind itself to death!
    Think its time to source a nice quiet pump
    Sometimes the solenoid valves don't flip when they are supposed to (the changeover relay sometimes doesn't latch), which can lead to the valves locking closed in both directions and the pump straining against the pressure relief valve. Is that the rude noise you are describing?

    The Smiths mini-pack is a very noisy, but highly reliable hydraulic pump. Try flipping the relay a few times to see if the problem clears.

    Only suggesting it because mine did the same thing last week, but in my case being laid up for several years clearly didn't help!

    Lauren
    only Pythagoras can save me now!

  2. #52
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    Thanks Lauren,
    Yep got it bang on! I noticed the pump only travelling in the downward direction. It was the brand new VW relay I bought that was the problem. Opened up the relay and the very thin metal strip was not properly alternating left and right.
    All good now . Even got the remote canopy working as well.
    Dec

  3. #53
    ***Euro-Nova Supporter*** Spacenut's Avatar
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    That is excellent news - but does mean that you don't have an excuse to bin the Smiths pump just yet!
    only Pythagoras can save me now!

  4. #54
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    No, looks like pump is OK which will save spending further money. I don't mind it been noisy , more concerned over the reliability of the relays , so I'll keep the old skool one on hand in the car from now on.

  5. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by dmcdec View Post
    Having a bit of trouble with this. I took the wiring from the old circuit which was in bad condition.
    I'm using an interior push button as oruginally , the one button for both UP and Down. Also key switch on the outside, hoping to fit a remote entry system in as well , there was one there before.

    Excuse the crude circuit below , I'm not sure how the old VW relay wires up. I have found pin 30 labelled as an Earth , but other diagrams on the web show it as a live. I am also not sure why the starter solenoid is involved for feed.

    Here's what I have so far , would be great if someone can fill in the blanks. Apologies if thread is dicussed somewhere else

    I too am having to rewire the roof pump as it had been tampered with before I got the car and its turning out to be a right ball ache. So, a few questions if you don;t mind:

    1. How do you make the roof go up AND down using just a one way external key switch or the internal momentary push switch? I followed the wiring diagram on pge 106 and all it does is energise the pump and ONE of the pump solenoids simultaneously (the up one). That's fine if I'm only opening the roof canopy, but what about closing it using the same switches? The pump energises and runs the same way for both pump solenoids, I know that, so no problem there. However, I cant seem to figure out how the UP solenoid closes and the power transfers over to the DOWN one?

    2. You said you weren't sure if the 30 terminal on the latch relay was either Earth - or Positive. Did you figure it out? If so, which one is it? I have it wired to earth. That's what the wiring circuit diagram says. Is that correct?

    Cheers,
    Graham

  6. #56
    Senior Member Phill's Avatar
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    The way I understand it is as follows:-

    The Pump always runs in one direction
    There are two slolenoids on the pump, one pushes fluid in the up direction, the other in the down direction
    Both solenoids are normally closed unless they are energised
    The modified head lamp relay provide power to either 56a or 56b - which in turn energises the up or down solenoid
    The changeover relay flips between 56a and 56b one press goes to 56a for as long as the switch is pressed.
    Release the switch and press again and the power goes to 56b so opens the other solenoid instead

    Hope that makes sense?
    "The most beautiful kit car in the world - Motor"

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  7. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phill View Post
    The way I understand it is as follows:-

    The Pump always runs in one direction
    There are two slolenoids on the pump, one pushes fluid in the up direction, the other in the down direction
    Both solenoids are normally closed unless they are energised
    The modified head lamp relay provide power to either 56a or 56b - which in turn energises the up or down solenoid
    The changeover relay flips between 56a and 56b one press goes to 56a for as long as the switch is pressed.
    Release the switch and press again and the power goes to 56b so opens the other solenoid instead

    Hope that makes sense?
    I’ve finally got to the bottom of it thanks to your post about the relay internals. The bloody NEW latching relay was faulty. The alternating contacts were only connecting on one side. The other side was just refusing to connect. I’d take it back but I’ve already snipped the top contact off per the mod spec. Anyway, I know what’s wrong now. Another new relay tomorrow and I’m good to go. Many thanks

  8. #58
    ***Euro-Nova Supporter*** BlueNova's Avatar
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    I’ve not tackled the hydraulics yet and have a feeling that when I do I’ll be referring to this thread ... very helpful indeed

    Alistair

  9. #59
    Euro-Nova Founder bobbybrown's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Graham Zimmatore View Post
    I’ve finally got to the bottom of it thanks to your post about the relay internals. The bloody NEW latching relay was faulty. The alternating contacts were only connecting on one side. The other side was just refusing to connect. I’d take it back but I’ve already snipped the top contact off per the mod spec. Anyway, I know what’s wrong now. Another new relay tomorrow and I’m good to go. Many thanks
    I’ve had a new latching/dim dip relay turn out faulty in the past, tricky as once you have chopped it you doubt yourself. From what I’ve read here it does sound like the relay is junk and another new will have you sorted
    Last edited by bobbybrown; 06-05-2022 at 11:30 PM.

  10. #60
    Senior Member Phill's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Graham Zimmatore View Post
    I’ve finally got to the bottom of it thanks to your post about the relay internals. The bloody NEW latching relay was faulty. The alternating contacts were only connecting on one side. The other side was just refusing to connect. I’d take it back but I’ve already snipped the top contact off per the mod spec. Anyway, I know what’s wrong now. Another new relay tomorrow and I’m good to go. Many thanks
    Glad you have got it sorted
    "The most beautiful kit car in the world - Motor"

    http://stores.lulu.com/rightsigns


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